Catastrophic Decompression; Small Place Solo

When I conducted my first solo flight, it was pretty much a non-event
except that I had the plane to myself. After about thirty minutes of
dual - read that as two of us in the airplane, student (me) and the
instructor - including several landings at a controlled (has a tower)
airport, the instructor had me taxi over to the base of the tower and
shut the airplane down. He then asked for my log book and scribbled an
endorsement in the back certifying that I was qualified for solo flight.
Mind you, I had already received ten hours of flight training up to that
point plus extensive text work as well. He then told me to keep the
airplane "in the pattern", i.e. don't leave the controlled airspace
surrounding the airport: approximately a five mile radius. I was then
to perform three "touch and goes" - landings in which you place the
airplane on the runway but do not come to a stop but rather retract the
flaps while still rolling, apply power, and takeoff again. Then I was
to land with a full stop and return to the tower. He said he would
watch with the controllers. Geez, now I had an audience. I contacted
the tower via radio and was given clearance to takeoff and stay in the
pattern. I remembered I was literally shaking, not with fear but with
exhilaration. "Don't screw this up, don't screw this up," was my
mantra. I advanced the throttle once I was positioned on the centerline
of the runway and, in my estimation, the little Cessna 152 leapt
forward, unencumbered by the weight of a second person. Reaching 50
knots, I gently pulled back on the yoke and the plane rotated and
departed the runway. "WOW! I was flying! Really flying! I was in
control! I am a pilot!"
It was all I could do to not start whistling the theme from "The High
and the Mighty." The rest is history. Many hundreds and hundreds of
flight hours (PIC or Pilot In Command) later and innummerable aircraft,
I find myself grounded due to diabetes. Nothing will ever quite compare
to that first solo flight. God I miss it. Jerry


Aviation wrote:
I have two questions inspired by Hollywood movies.

In the movies (Goldfinger, Executive Decision and so on),
when pressurized aircraft suffer catastrophic decompression
at high (25000+ feet) altitude (usually when the bad guy
shoots a bullet through a window) everything not tied down
gets sucked out of the plane and the aircraft goes into an
immediate, rapid nose dive and the pilots or the good guys
have to struggle to level it off or prevent a crash.

Is this an automatic "safety" feature of real, regular aircraft?
On the one hand, passengers need to get denser air to breathe
but large aircraft have oxygen masks that drop down. (I could
do some rough estimates that the average fat slob can hold
their breath for less than a minute so, without masks, the jet
would have to go from let's say 30000 feet to 5000 feet in
30-45 seconds. My ears would explode.)

I would think that a crash dive to a lower altitude could be
even more dangerous such as if it occurred in a crowded air
corridor. Maybe there are other dangers.

What REALLY happens (or is supposed to happen) in the event
of sudden decompression of real high flying aircraft?



The second Hollywood inspired question comes from Executive
Decision (1996). The main character is taking flying lessons
in a single prop 2-seater plane and lands. The plane is still
running (on the ground) and his instructor says, 'I think
you're ready to solo' and gets out. The main character starts
to taxi and then other non-flying plot developments happen.
I was wondering if taking your FIRST solo flight is that simple.

The location in the film in Washington, DC but I figure all
US flying is FAA regulated. Wouldn't the first time soloist
have to fill out some forms, file a flight plan with the
airport and maybe even do a complete pre-flight check on the
aircraft? Is the simplified movie solo flight completely
bogus or could it happen that way?


THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

"Jerry Hall" wrote in message
...
When I conducted my first solo flight, it was pretty much a non-event
except that I had the plane to myself. After about thirty minutes of
dual - read that as two of us in the airplane, student (me) and the
instructor - including several landings at a controlled (has a tower)
airport, the instructor had me taxi over to the base of the tower and shut
the airplane down. He then asked for my log book and scribbled an
endorsement in the back certifying that I was qualified for solo flight.
Mind you, I had already received ten hours of flight training up to that
point plus extensive text work as well. He then told me to keep the
airplane "in the pattern", i.e. don't leave the controlled airspace
surrounding the airport: approximately a five mile radius. I was then to
perform three "touch and goes" - landings in which you place the airplane
on the runway but do not come to a stop but rather retract the flaps while
still rolling, apply power, and takeoff again. Then I was to land with a
full stop and return to the tower. He said he would watch with the
controllers. Geez, now I had an audience. I contacted the tower via
radio and was given clearance to takeoff and stay in the pattern. I
remembered I was literally shaking, not with fear but with exhilaration.
"Don't screw this up, don't screw this up," was my mantra. I advanced the
throttle once I was positioned on the centerline of the runway and, in my
estimation, the little Cessna 152 leapt forward, unencumbered by the
weight of a second person. Reaching 50 knots, I gently pulled back on the
yoke and the plane rotated and departed the runway. "WOW! I was flying!
Really flying! I was in control! I am a pilot!"
It was all I could do to not start whistling the theme from "The High and
the Mighty." The rest is history.

Many hundreds and hundreds of flight hours (PIC or Pilot In Command) later
and innummerable aircraft, I find myself grounded due to diabetes.

Have you thought about getting a special issuance (if your diabetes is under
fairly good control) to get your medical back and start flying again? :-)

Nothing will ever quite compare to that first solo flight. God I miss it.
Jerry


Aviation wrote:
I have two questions inspired by Hollywood movies.

In the movies (Goldfinger, Executive Decision and so on), when
pressurized aircraft suffer catastrophic decompression
at high (25000+ feet) altitude (usually when the bad guy shoots a bullet
through a window) everything not tied down gets sucked out of the plane
and the aircraft goes into an immediate, rapid nose dive and the pilots
or the good guys have to struggle to level it off or prevent a crash. Is
this an automatic "safety" feature of real, regular aircraft? On the one
hand, passengers need to get denser air to breathe but large aircraft
have oxygen masks that drop down. (I could do some rough estimates that
the average fat slob can hold their breath for less than a minute so,
without masks, the jet
would have to go from let's say 30000 feet to 5000 feet in 30-45 seconds.
My ears would explode.)

I would think that a crash dive to a lower altitude could be even more
dangerous such as if it occurred in a crowded air corridor. Maybe there
are other dangers.

What REALLY happens (or is supposed to happen) in the event
of sudden decompression of real high flying aircraft? The second
Hollywood inspired question comes from Executive
Decision (1996). The main character is taking flying lessons
in a single prop 2-seater plane and lands. The plane is still
running (on the ground) and his instructor says, 'I think you're ready to
solo' and gets out. The main character starts to taxi and then other
non-flying plot developments happen. I was wondering if taking your
FIRST solo flight is that simple. The location in the film in
Washington, DC but I figure all
US flying is FAA regulated. Wouldn't the first time soloist have to fill
out some forms, file a flight plan with the airport and maybe even do a
complete pre-flight check on the aircraft? Is the simplified movie solo
flight completely bogus or could it happen that way?


THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

After roughly ten seconds at 25K all thinking is backwards..
Denny

"Tom Fleischman" wrote You're
thinking backwards, Bob.

"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote in message gy.com...


At altitude A/C cabins are like a pressure vessel. A/C cabins are
pressurized to maintain ~ 12 PSI Gauge, ~ the same as normal atmospheric
pressure @ 11,000' ASL, in the cabin irrespective of altitude above 11,000'

Actually, 8,000' (at least in US certificated transports).

"John E. Carty" wrote

Many hundreds and hundreds of flight hours (PIC or Pilot In Command)
later
and innummerable aircraft, I find myself grounded due to diabetes.

Have you thought about getting a special issuance (if your diabetes is
under
fairly good control) to get your medical back and start flying again? :-)

Nothing will ever quite compare to that first solo flight. God I miss
it.
Jerry


Get a pump, and one of those sugar checkers that records every reading, and
getting back into the air should be no big deal. Do it!
--
Jim in NC

"John E. Carty" wrote

Many hundreds and hundreds of flight hours (PIC or Pilot In Command)
later
and innummerable aircraft, I find myself grounded due to diabetes.

Have you thought about getting a special issuance (if your diabetes is
under
fairly good control) to get your medical back and start flying again? :-)

Nothing will ever quite compare to that first solo flight. God I miss
it.
Jerry


Get a pump, and one of those sugar checkers that records every reading, and
getting back into the air should be no big deal. Do it!
--
Jim in NC

On 31-Dec-2003, Jim Weir wrote:

Putting a GPS antenna UNDER a small bowl-shaped carbon fiber radome
immediately
killed any GPS signal into a 27 dB gain active antenna INCLUDING
satellites that
were directly overhead.


Yes, carbon fiber is an excellent RF absorber, particularly at GPS
frequencies.

--
-Elliott Drucker

John. It seems that once you move from oral medication to insulin as a
treatment for diabetes, that is the death knell to one's medical
certificate. Lord knows I've certainly jumped through a lot of hoops.
Several years ago the FAA medical folks as much as said, "Give it up,
turkey. You're not getting your medical reinstated." I go through a
similar line of BS in keeping my automobile driver's license. And my
glucose readings seldom go over 140. Have been hoping the newer "Sport"
license might allow me to fly again. Then there are ultralights but
that just isn't quite the same thing. To steal a line from Top Gun, I
feel the need for speed. Had a 177 RG. Jerry

John E. Carty wrote:
"Jerry Hall" wrote in message
...

When I conducted my first solo flight, it was pretty much a non-event
except that I had the plane to myself. After about thirty minutes of
dual - read that as two of us in the airplane, student (me) and the
instructor - including several landings at a controlled (has a tower)
airport, the instructor had me taxi over to the base of the tower and shut
the airplane down. He then asked for my log book and scribbled an
endorsement in the back certifying that I was qualified for solo flight.
Mind you, I had already received ten hours of flight training up to that
point plus extensive text work as well. He then told me to keep the
airplane "in the pattern", i.e. don't leave the controlled airspace
surrounding the airport: approximately a five mile radius. I was then to
perform three "touch and goes" - landings in which you place the airplane
on the runway but do not come to a stop but rather retract the flaps while
still rolling, apply power, and takeoff again. Then I was to land with a
full stop and return to the tower. He said he would watch with the
controllers. Geez, now I had an audience. I contacted the tower via
radio and was given clearance to takeoff and stay in the pattern. I
remembered I was literally shaking, not with fear but with exhilaration.
"Don't screw this up, don't screw this up," was my mantra. I advanced the
throttle once I was positioned on the centerline of the runway and, in my
estimation, the little Cessna 152 leapt forward, unencumbered by the
weight of a second person. Reaching 50 knots, I gently pulled back on the
yoke and the plane rotated and departed the runway. "WOW! I was flying!
Really flying! I was in control! I am a pilot!"
It was all I could do to not start whistling the theme from "The High and
the Mighty." The rest is history.


Many hundreds and hundreds of flight hours (PIC or Pilot In Command) later
and innummerable aircraft, I find myself grounded due to diabetes.


Have you thought about getting a special issuance (if your diabetes is under
fairly good control) to get your medical back and start flying again? :-)


Nothing will ever quite compare to that first solo flight. God I miss it.
Jerry


Aviation wrote:

I have two questions inspired by Hollywood movies.

In the movies (Goldfinger, Executive Decision and so on), when
pressurized aircraft suffer catastrophic decompression
at high (25000+ feet) altitude (usually when the bad guy shoots a bullet
through a window) everything not tied down gets sucked out of the plane
and the aircraft goes into an immediate, rapid nose dive and the pilots
or the good guys have to struggle to level it off or prevent a crash. Is
this an automatic "safety" feature of real, regular aircraft? On the one
hand, passengers need to get denser air to breathe but large aircraft
have oxygen masks that drop down. (I could do some rough estimates that
the average fat slob can hold their breath for less than a minute so,
without masks, the jet
would have to go from let's say 30000 feet to 5000 feet in 30-45 seconds.
My ears would explode.)

I would think that a crash dive to a lower altitude could be even more
dangerous such as if it occurred in a crowded air corridor. Maybe there
are other dangers.

What REALLY happens (or is supposed to happen) in the event
of sudden decompression of real high flying aircraft? The second
Hollywood inspired question comes from Executive
Decision (1996). The main character is taking flying lessons
in a single prop 2-seater plane and lands. The plane is still
running (on the ground) and his instructor says, 'I think you're ready to
solo' and gets out. The main character starts to taxi and then other
non-flying plot developments happen. I was wondering if taking your
FIRST solo flight is that simple. The location in the film in
Washington, DC but I figure all
US flying is FAA regulated. Wouldn't the first time soloist have to fill
out some forms, file a flight plan with the airport and maybe even do a
complete pre-flight check on the aircraft? Is the simplified movie solo
flight completely bogus or could it happen that way?


THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

"khobar" wrote in message
news:c4QIb.16727$7D3.2605@fed1read02...
Ralph Nesbitt wrote in message
news

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
...
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote

Hopefully all realize when referring to "Air Pressure" at altitude
this
is
an "absolute" pressure value inside the fuselage irrespective of
ambient.
When referring to air pressures at ground level the pressure reading
is
above unadjusted ambient barometric pressure.

In the Boeing aircraft that I flew (B-727,B-707,B-720) there were two
gages on the FE's panel. One was a simple altimeter that indicated
the
cabin altitude at all times and the other, a differential pressure
gage
that indicated the difference in pressure between outside and inside.
The maximum differential for those aircraft was around 8.6 psi. The
only
way to determine the absolute pressure inside the aircraft would be to
use
a graph to convert the altimeter indication to pressure.

Bob Moore

The protocols you reiterate above will translate to a ~ constant
pressure
of
12 PSI Gauge inside the cabin as the A/C moves through it's flight
profile
above ~ 11,000'.
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

http://books.nap.edu/books/030908289...6.html#pagetop

http://print.nap.edu/pdf/0309082897/pdf_image/36.pdf


Paul Nixon

Thanks for detailed "Technical Spec's" for A/C pressurization.


My number of ~12 PSI Gauge was based on rule of thumb used by FD/CFR/ARFF
for off the cuff calculation of A/C pressurization & apparatus pump flow
rates; re 75% of 15.8 lbs (11.85 to 12) or 31.6 inches of mercury barometric
pressure rounded to closest number with 100% humidity at sea level. In
winter 75% of 14.4 lbs (10.8 to 11) or 28.7 inches of mercury barometric
pressure rounded to closest number with 100% humidity. These values are
"Rule of Thumb" ranges "Normally Encountered". Unusual atmospheric
conditions can cause higher or lower Barometric pressure values.

To determine exact PSIG it is necessary to use "unadjusted barometric
pressure values at any given location".

The variance in range of barometric pressures encountered is why
pressurization systems are based on "Relative Values" instead of absolute
values".
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

"Scott M. Kozel" wrote in message
...
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:

"Cub Driver" wrote:

Was that in reference to a stray bullet causing the decompression?
If so, I'd have to agree that he's full of it.

Yes, just so. He agreed that the sky marshal would have frangible
bullets, but argued that the terrorist would not. That would lead to a
bullet through the airplane (he didn't specify window, which I
understand to be a problem) followed by explosive decompression "and
all that that entails."

The comments below are applicable to modern commercial Pax A/C. Anyone
familiar with the structure of an A/C will immediately ROFL at the idea
of a
9mm bullet penetrating the external skin if fired from inside the cabin.

It would take a substantially more powerful weapon than a 9mm to cause a
"Window Failure", even then impact would have to be near 90 degrees
because
of their "Plug design, plus they are thicker in the center than the edge
This curvature is on the inside.

The same applies to a bullet exiting through the A/C skin. Consider
between
what is seen as the interior cabin wall & the "External Skin" of the A/C
is
a layer of insulation, assorted wiring, plumbing in some places, plus
untold ribs, stiffeners, & other assorted structural components all of
which
have some "Curvature" to them. All these components are riveted together
through "Lap Joints". All joints/connections are sealed with "Sealant"
of
varying strengths.

The structure of an A/C is designed to flex, expand, & contract as the
A/C
goes thru pressurization/de-pressurization cycles.

There are a few places a "Very High Velocity Bullet" of large caliber
could
possibly exit the external skin if it the internal point of impact was
at a
"very specific angle, very close to 90 degrees to external skin" if
fired
from close range internally. Consider all the materials described above
a
bullet would have to impact/penetrate, without its path being diverted
by
some degree of ricochet.

Really? I saw a movie in the 1960s where a guy with a .38 revolver
tried to shoot another pax on an airliner (I think it was a DC-7), and
he missed and the slug went through the cabin wall and hit an engine and
set it on fire. :-]

Was that the 1 with the promotion for "Scenic Florida Vacation Property at
+/- 2' sea level" as a "Promotional Trailer"?
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type