Lot of noise being made about Purple Hearts

Bush and Cheney have served their country and are still serving it.


Indeed--to the Saudis, on a silver platter.

Subject: Lot of noise being made about Purple Hearts
From: (Tom Cervo)
Date: 8/18/2004 9:10 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Bush and Cheney have served their country and are still serving it.


Indeed--to the Saudis, on a silver platter.




With a chunk going to Halliburton.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

You've almost got an analogy there, except the guy in Hurtgen, Omaha Beach,
and Bastogne didn't volunteer to return home. They stood and fought.

Many came home as a result of their wounds.

Kerry didn't. He used his medals as an exit pass. He was still fit to fight.
I understand his commander asked him to leave, and gave him the idea
about the 3 medal and you can go home idea, and he took it.

I suggest you visit your local VA hospital for an education in combat.

I spent 8 months in one in 1991. Been there done that. Didn't get any
medal though (friendly fire).

If you have the stomach for it.

I love the human body, and the spirit of survivors. I can't stomach much
of what you admire in Kerry.

At Bastogne the defensae was led by the mighty 101st Airborne, at Omaha
Beach the powerful big red one led the charge. In the Hurtgen forest it was a
combination of: 22nd Infantry,· 4th Division,· VII Corps· XV Corps and
5th Armored Division

I bet you read that in a book professor...

Kerry's 4 months was a lot more combat time than many of those above ever
were in combat.

So you're comparing Kerry's 4 months of service to the soldiers fighting the
Germans mechanized army in the battle of the Bulge? Interesting.

"Tom Cervo" wrote
Bush and Cheney have served their country and are still serving it.

Indeed--to the Saudis, on a silver platter.

"In the end, It's all about SUV's and cheap gas" -- General Wesley Clark

"ArtKramr" wrote
Bush and Cheney have served their country and are still serving it.

Indeed--to the Saudis, on a silver platter.

With a chunk going to Halliburton.

and the rest to Ford, GM, and Chrysler, Honda, and Nissan...

Subject: Lot of noise being made about Purple Hearts
From: "Billy Preston"
Date: 8/18/2004 9:17 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: 2SVUc.7917$ni.2571@okepread01

"ArtKramr" wrote

You've almost got an analogy there, except the guy in Hurtgen, Omaha
Beach,
and Bastogne didn't volunteer to return home. They stood and fought.

Many came home as a result of their wounds.

Kerry didn't. He used his medals as an exit pass. He was still fit to
fight.
I understand his commander asked him to leave, and gave him the idea
about the 3 medal and you can go home idea, and he took it.

I suggest you visit your local VA hospital for an education in combat.

I spent 8 months in one in 1991. Been there done that. Didn't get any
medal though (friendly fire).

If you have the stomach for it.

I love the human body, and the spirit of survivors. I can't stomach much
of what you admire in Kerry.

At Bastogne the defensae was led by the mighty 101st Airborne, at Omaha
Beach the powerful big red one led the charge. In the Hurtgen forest it
was a
combination of: 22nd Infantry,· 4th Division,· VII Corps· XV Corps and
5th Armored Division

I bet you read that in a book professor...


I was over Bastogne on the first day the weather cleared attacking panzers
that had Bastogne surrounded. And you are not smart enough to be a professor.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

I bet you read that in a book professor...

you are not smart enough to be a professor.

I bow before you, master.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Lot of noise being made about Purple Hearts
From: "Billy Preston"
Date: 8/18/2004 8:31 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: zaVUc.7915$ni.7854@okepread01

"ArtKramr" wrote
"ArtKramr" wrote

Bush and Chaney are just attacking him to cover up their failure
to serve their country as he did.

He only served for 4 months. Not enough to measure a mans worth.

A man who landed on Omaha and fought his way through and only spent a
week
in
combat has proven himself very well. A man who fought the battle of the
Hurtgen
Forest for only a month has proven himself very well. A man who fought
in
the
defence of Bastogne for only a month has proven himself very well.

You've almost got an analogy there, except the guy in Hurtgen, Omaha
Beach,
and Bastogne didn't volunteer to return home. They stood and fought.


Many came home as a result of their wounds. I suggest you visit your local
VA
hospital for an education in combat. If you have the stomach for it. At
Bastogne the defensae was led by the mighty 101st Airborne,

Bastogne would have been a speed bump had it not been for the troops of the
28th ID (a NG unit) who slowed the German thrust long enough for the 101st
guys to get to the town.

at Omaha Beach the
powerful big red one led the charge.

Uhmmm--you are forgetting that the actual assault wave was made up of one
rgiment from the 1st ID and one regiment (116th RCT) from the 29th ID
(another NG unit--you remember, the guys you said were still at home in
their armories?).


In the Hurtgen forest it was a
combination of:
22nd Infantry,· 4th Division,· VII Corps· XV Corps and 5th Armored
Division

What? The 28th ID was the unit that was bled white in the Heurtgen, and you
do not even mention them?


Some of these units at Hurgten were not too well trained ( National Guard,
Reserve) causing large casualties,

Nope. By that time their training was every bit as complete as that of the
RA divisions (the division had after all been mobilized in 1940, and by this
time a lot of its key slots were taken up by RA officers, including that of
commanding general). It was more of a leadership problem, at multiple
echelons, that caused the 28th ID to get mauled, along with facing a
tenacious enemy in very difficult terrain.

You still need to brush up on your WWII history, Art. Three claims you made,
and they all suffered serious factual errors--unfortunately, that is about
par for the course with you.

Brooks

But they did prevail in the end.So Kerry's
4 months was a lot more combat time than many of those above ever were
in
combat.





Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Well, someone's lying:

"Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal
critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about
his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a
Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim
that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet
Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his
actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to
The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several
references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all
units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and
the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat
"despite enemy bullets flying about him."

"Tom Cervo" wrote in message
...
Well, someone's lying:

Has Thurlow ever claimed his own citation (which he indicates he lost over
20 years ago), which wasafterall written by others, was correct in these
details? Kerry has.

Brooks


"Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal
critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying
about
his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who
commanded a
Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's
claim
that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in
Viet
Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for
his
actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday
to
The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several
references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at
"all
units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that
day, and
the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat
"despite enemy bullets flying about him."