Help needed at Mifflin.

Probably 30 amps... Enough to keep itself aligned into the wind and to adjust the blade pitch (X 100's of turbines in each farm). The motors required to manage those tasks are not small! Nor is the power required to run those motors and manage the electronics required to operate the systems. If you ever stand near one while they are stopped and trying to re-"spin" you learn that they are working fairly hard, constantly adjusting the blade heading and blade angle. Even while running in a strong wind, the turbine makes many corrections each minute in blade pitch and probably in turbine drag.. All requiring significant power.

Also, the turbine only engages and produce net power once a certain amount of blade speed (net power) is achieved. This speed is higher than most realize. So, even all the alignment and blade changes at low speed are also from power being sucked off the grid. In other words, at low speed the blade is just free wheeling with no power being produced.

We have a huge "windfarm" to the NE of Ionia near Alma Michigan. We fly over it often. Probably 150 - 200 generators. Personally, I refer to this region as the field of death" or the "bird scrambler farm"! The ground around them is literally littered with dead birds. I would fear greatly for the soaring birds in the Mifflin habitat. Were is the EPA on this one? Hmmm? Sure, its a big problem when you endanger the spotted owl (in any capitalist endeavor)...but when hundreds of hawks and other birds are ensured of a brutal inhumane death every month per wind turbine blade strikes its overlooked because its a liberal project.

Enjoy the death of birds at the hand of green energy liberals below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/to...cifixes/page/2

http://now.msn.com/bird-hits-wind-tu...lled-instantly

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...twitchers.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=bird...ih=62 9&dpr=2

The horror of liberals and their wind turbines are very real for soaring birds. Liberals, where are you on this one? Hmmmm? Tens of thousands on INNOCENT BIRDS are dying each and every day! Their blood is on your hands!

Now I understand. Thanks.


wrote in message
...
On Sunday, October 6, 2013 1:53:15 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
I don't understand the problem. Don't you fly upwind of the ridge and
approximately at or below the crest? Of course, if you fly above the
crest, I could see the conflict. If you fly in front of the ridge, is
there concern that the power companies will lobby the FAA to prevent you
from flying "too close"ly?


We fly at ridge top height and about a wing span out on the good days. We
rarely fly below the crest intentionally. It is faster at ridge top.On
softer days we may be almost on top of the ridge and a couple hundred feet
up.
The windmills are shown almost exactly where we fly.
UH

On Monday, October 7, 2013 7:34:57 AM UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:
Probably 30 amps... Enough to keep itself aligned into the wind and to adjust the blade pitch (X 100's of turbines in each farm). The motors required to manage those tasks are not small! Nor is the power required to run those motors and manage the electronics required to operate the systems. If you ever stand near one while they are stopped and trying to re-"spin" you learn that they are working fairly hard, constantly adjusting the blade heading and blade angle. Even while running in a strong wind, the turbine makes many corrections each minute in blade pitch and probably in turbine drag. All requiring significant power.



Also, the turbine only engages and produce net power once a certain amount of blade speed (net power) is achieved. This speed is higher than most realize. So, even all the alignment and blade changes at low speed are also from power being sucked off the grid. In other words, at low speed the blade is just free wheeling with no power being produced.



We have a huge "windfarm" to the NE of Ionia near Alma Michigan. We fly over it often. Probably 150 - 200 generators. Personally, I refer to this region as the field of death" or the "bird scrambler farm"! The ground around them is literally littered with dead birds. I would fear greatly for the soaring birds in the Mifflin habitat. Were is the EPA on this one? Hmmm? Sure, its a big problem when you endanger the spotted owl (in any capitalist endeavor)...but when hundreds of hawks and other birds are ensured of a brutal inhumane death every month per wind turbine blade strikes its overlooked because its a liberal project.



Enjoy the death of birds at the hand of green energy liberals below:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU



http://singletrackworld.com/forum/to...cifixes/page/2



http://now.msn.com/bird-hits-wind-tu...lled-instantly



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...twitchers.html



https://www.google.com/search?q=bird...ih=62 9&dpr=2



The horror of liberals and their wind turbines are very real for soaring birds. Liberals, where are you on this one? Hmmmm? Tens of thousands on INNOCENT BIRDS are dying each and every day! Their blood is on your hands!

Sean,

the real horror is the young birds: the "children". doesn't anyone care about the children?

Brad

The horror of liberals and their wind turbines are very real for soaring birds. Liberals, where are you on this one?

You are kidding right? I suppose conservatives don't own cars or use electricity.

I am concerned about the soaring birds as they don't know the danger. Perhaps a huge cage should be required around them. Sailplanes will just have to slow down a bit in that area and move out in front. Easy and no big deal with our performance. Everyone will have to do the same in a race so it is just another obstacle on the course. I would not let a windmill stop me from soaring.

LOL! In all seriousness, the hypocrisy is stunning.

Unfortunately, I fear that the soaring community will be brushed aside fairly easily in this case. Mifflin is probably the first of many ridge soaring area's that will be destroyed in favor of "green energy."

I am all for smart energy policy but right now they would happily build a windfarm by displacing spotted owls (so coveted by the EPA: http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v4n1/) and the last bald eagle on earth with a broken wing! A few gliders (rich old capitalist pigs) being displaced from soaring in this area would probably be considered additional upside for the planners of this project!

Sean

On Monday, October 7, 2013 12:52:41 PM UTC-4, Brad wrote:
On Monday, October 7, 2013 7:34:57 AM UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:

Probably 30 amps... Enough to keep itself aligned into the wind and to adjust the blade pitch (X 100's of turbines in each farm). The motors required to manage those tasks are not small! Nor is the power required to run those motors and manage the electronics required to operate the systems. If you ever stand near one while they are stopped and trying to re-"spin" you learn that they are working fairly hard, constantly adjusting the blade heading and blade angle. Even while running in a strong wind, the turbine makes many corrections each minute in blade pitch and probably in turbine drag. All requiring significant power.







Also, the turbine only engages and produce net power once a certain amount of blade speed (net power) is achieved. This speed is higher than most realize. So, even all the alignment and blade changes at low speed are also from power being sucked off the grid. In other words, at low speed the blade is just free wheeling with no power being produced.







We have a huge "windfarm" to the NE of Ionia near Alma Michigan. We fly over it often. Probably 150 - 200 generators. Personally, I refer to this region as the field of death" or the "bird scrambler farm"! The ground around them is literally littered with dead birds. I would fear greatly for the soaring birds in the Mifflin habitat. Were is the EPA on this one? Hmmm? Sure, its a big problem when you endanger the spotted owl (in any capitalist endeavor)...but when hundreds of hawks and other birds are ensured of a brutal inhumane death every month per wind turbine blade strikes its overlooked because its a liberal project.







Enjoy the death of birds at the hand of green energy liberals below:







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU







http://singletrackworld.com/forum/to...cifixes/page/2







http://now.msn.com/bird-hits-wind-tu...lled-instantly







http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...twitchers.html







https://www.google.com/search?q=bird...ih=62 9&dpr=2







The horror of liberals and their wind turbines are very real for soaring birds. Liberals, where are you on this one? Hmmmm? Tens of thousands on INNOCENT BIRDS are dying each and every day! Their blood is on your hands!



Sean,



the real horror is the young birds: the "children". doesn't anyone care about the children?



Brad

Could we make an effort to keep Partisan Bickering off of RAS?

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:01:33 AM UTC-6, KS wrote:
Two companies are planning the installation of wind turbines on top of Jacks Mt near the Mifflin County Airport where contests have been held for 23 years. Ridge running on Jacks is vital to the success of soaring at Mifflin and these devices would eliminate an essential part of the soaring activity. See http://mifflin.ridgesewing.com/Jacks.htm for a further link to information which will show a picture of what the wind farm would look like and a request for letters/e-mails to help thwart this project. Thanks for your help. Karl Striedieck PS Send this on to those who might not follow ras but could help.

I'm all for saving a great soaring site. As for bird mortality, please. Picture windows and automobiles cause orders of magnitude more mortality that wind farms. Perhaps you'd care to give those up too?

I have been involved with wind turbine engineering for the last ten years. I believe we need wind generation, and other renewables, in the generation portfolio. However, Jack's Mountain and the attached ridge is a unique soaring treasure, and I fully support efforts to have this project, as well as others on critical soaring ridges, to be rejected. There are good places and bad places for wind turbines; this is a BAD place.

However, the soaring interests will have a greater chance for success if we don't flail irrelevant or poorly substantiated arguments. One of these distracting and irrelevant arguments is the fact that wind turbines "suck" power from the grid when the wind speed is below, or above, the operating range. The amount of energy consumed for standby auxiliary power is trivial; yaw motors do rotate the nacelle into the wind, and lube oil heaters keep the lube oil from turning solid in the winter. And, where do you think the power comes from to light the aviation warning lights? Should we eliminate those? Plus EVERY power plant sucks power from the grid when it is not generating, and many fossil-fueled plants operate much less frequently than wind plants, and consume far greater auxiliary power.

Bird kills from wind plants are a fact, but as previously posted, cars and building windows kill far more. However, the ridge lift that attracts us also attracts soaring birds, and I believe that focusing on the unique risks to birds of this location on Jack's Ridge will do us far more good than striking out on wind turbines everywhere.

We should focus on the unique soaring treasure that this mountain and the ridge provides, and the economic benefits of our time and expenditures in the region Let the locals fight the visual impact, sound, and other similar issues. Let the bird and bat people handle their own turf, they have much better info than we do, and PLEASE, don't throw out b.s. that is totally irrelevant that discredits the soaring community. Also, let's not get into the middle of the global warming fight...

All good points in this last post.
I just read Karl's website and he states:
"A number of ridges populate the area between the Tunnels and Clark’s Ferry TPs. On days with northwest winds these ridge can be used for short runs and saves, but don’t offer sustained runs of any length. A good percentage of the Waggoners Gap to Tunnels section passes over Tuscarora State Forest with most of the valleys totally covered in forest-not the realm of a safety conscious pilot. "

Perhaps we should be united in asking that the location be moved to another ridge nearby that pilots do not use much. There are many, many ridges in this area. Karl should pick a likely area and we should all stand behind his choice in our letters.

I have also been in the wind generator biz. I can't add more or better responses than Soartech and 37. Please reread what they said and pretend it's from me.

Please keep the partisan politics off. Right or Left, it doesn't contribute to a solution.

As to the suggestion that we back and alternate ridge...I'm in. Excellent suggestion.


Terry