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#11
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
On Mar 21, 9:07*am, Jack Linthicum
wrote: On Mar 21, 9:02*am, Jim Wilkins wrote: On Mar 21, 8:00*am, Arved Sandstrom wrote: *... How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple smoke, or is that still relevant? jsw GPS and lasers I helped develop some of that stuff and would be cautious about relying on it against a technically sophisticated enemy who could localize the emissions or spoof GPS with pseudolites. Enough said, no examples this time. jsw |
#12
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
On Mar 21, 9:50*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:07*am, Jack Linthicum wrote: On Mar 21, 9:02*am, Jim Wilkins wrote: On Mar 21, 8:00*am, Arved Sandstrom wrote: *... How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple smoke, or is that still relevant? jsw GPS and lasers I helped develop some of that stuff and would be cautious about relying on it against a technically sophisticated enemy who could localize the emissions or spoof GPS with pseudolites. Enough said, no examples this time. jsw When was the last time the U.S. military faced a "technically sophisticated enemy"? How do you spoof military GPS? |
#13
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
On Mar 21, 9:35*am, Andrew Chaplin
wrote: Jim Wilkins wrote in news:403ede79-f9c2-4ed1-9568- ... [Generally, however, if you're firing smoke to mark a target, you're dealing with a target that doesn't require smart ammo.] -- Andrew Chaplin Good point. I was thinking of gun positions concealed on a rocky hillside, able to target laser flashes and kill the designator. jsw |
#14
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
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#15
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
On Mar 21, 10:41*am, Andrew Chaplin
wrote: Jim Wilkins wrote in news:06e4c642-660b-43ad-ab48- : On Mar 21, 9:35*am, Andrew Chaplin wrote: Jim Wilkins wrote in news:403ede79-f9c2-4ed1-9568- ... [Generally, however, if you're firing smoke to mark a target, you're dealing with a target that doesn't require smart ammo.] Good point. I was thinking of gun positions concealed on a rocky hillside, able to target laser flashes and kill the designator. Few if any service lasers "flash," at least not in the visible light spectrum. Laser designators are usually on only from the report of "Splash" -- about five seconds. It is a challenge to bring fire to bear before the guys with the laser f*** off. If you're talking indirect fire artillery, gun positions are never to be dealt with lightly; you need a counter-battery policy, the basis of which should usually be "go big or stay quiet" lest you attract unwelcome attentions. If you're dealing with DF arty, talk to your nearest tankie. I'm old school, so if I were bringing in air on guns as you describe, I would use some sort of load with DPICM submunitions. Those are not precision weapons and fitting GPS or other targeting aids to them when you can observe the target is, well, a waste of time and money. (My own government has sworn off DPICM because of its tendency to leave UXO all over the show, a policy I think ill-advised. A better idea would be to go with a bomblet with an extremely low probability of landing blind.) -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) Or timed self-dee |
#16
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
Jack Linthicum wrote in
: On Mar 21, 10:41*am, Andrew Chaplin wrote: Jim Wilkins wrote in news:06e4c642-660b-43ad-ab48- : On Mar 21, 9:35*am, Andrew Chaplin wrote: Jim Wilkins wrote in news:403ede79-f9c2-4ed1-9568- ... [Generally, however, if you're firing smoke to mark a target, you're dealing with a target that doesn't require smart ammo.] Good point. I was thinking of gun positions concealed on a rocky hillside, able to target laser flashes and kill the designator. Few if any service lasers "flash," at least not in the visible light spectrum. Laser designators are usually on only from the report of "Splash" -- about five seconds. It is a challenge to bring fire to bear before the guys with the laser f*** off. If you're talking indirect fire artillery, gun positions are never to be dealt with lightly; you need a counter-battery policy, the basis of which should usually be "go big or stay quiet" lest you attract unwelcome attentions. If you're dealing with DF arty, talk to your nearest tankie. I'm old school, so if I were bringing in air on guns as you describe, I would use some sort of load with DPICM submunitions. Those are not precision weapons and fitting GPS or other targeting aids to them when you can observe the target is, well, a waste of time and money. (My own government has sworn off DPICM because of its tendency to leave UXO all over the show, a policy I think ill-advised. A better idea would be to go with a bomblet with an extremely low probability of landing blind.) Or timed self-dee They had already tried that and it didn't work reliably. The DPICM bomblets were, I think, too small for a mechanism that would have done the trick, having a volume of only about 0.1 litres. Artillery-delivered minelets are large enough for such mechanism, but they are not (properly) used to suppress. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#17
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
On Mar 21, 10:41*am, Andrew Chaplin
wrote: ... Few if any service lasers "flash," at least not in the visible light spectrum. Laser designators are usually on only from the report of "Splash" -- about five seconds. It is a challenge to bring fire to bear before the guys with the laser f*** off. Infrared detection is now cheap and easy, to ~1 micron if you want a sharp image and out to 10 microns if you don't. jsw |
#18
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
It used to be that stealth aircraft were supposed to be the "silver
bullet" force that knocked down the enemy air defenses in the opening days of a conflict, so that the cheaper, less-stealthy platforms could follow up and do their thing. Now it looks like the USAF wants an all-silver-bullet force, which is going to cause the USAF to shrivel up into a purely air combat and interdiction force, while Army UCAV's and attack helos take over the CAS role. This is a bad idea. There are many missions, such as air-sovereignty and air strikes against insurgents, that don't require stealth, and will only pile up wear and tear on those expensive stealthy airframes. The USAF should consider buying more F-16's to fulfill these roles at a lower cost than the F-35. I doubt they will though. Agree/Disagree? |
#19
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message ... On Mar 21, 8:00 am, Arved Sandstrom wrote: ... How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple smoke, or is that still relevant? jsw ** By radio, only if the arty has direct line of sight to the target. For indirect fire, why throw smoke? (Unless you are relying on airborne spotter to relay radio fire missions.) |
#20
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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million
On Mar 21, 7:18*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Good point. I was thinking of gun positions concealed on a rocky hillside, able to target laser flashes and kill the designator. jsw For that kind of target you go PAM! PAM! PAM! -HJC |
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