Big Kahunas

On 12 Dec 2003 14:53:06 GMT ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote:

In article QjaCb.182$pY.74@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:


You know, your platitudes are getting tiresome.

Insults are a sign of a lack of an argument. Ad hominem.



You're misusing Ad Hominem.

If I said, "Because Hubbell says X=1, X must equal something other than 1,"
that would be an Ad Hominem argument, that the statement is false simply
because of your advocacy of that position.

Ad Hominem would not include the statement "Hubbell is insufficiently grounded
in reality to determine the value of X." That would be a personal insult, but
not an Ad Hominem argument.


Actually you've got it wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that people
without an argument or no further thing to say will resort to insults.

Or they may try to steer the discussion away from the topic.

R. Hubbell


Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In article JtmCb.2429$pY.219@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
writes:



But don't tell them that their children have to starve because you won't
purchase anything made of tropical hardwoods because the orangutans are
more
important than their children.

The idea is to tell them that if they manage their resources much more
carefully
then in the long haul they will be better off.



If you're so sure you can manage that forest better than them for the long
haul, then buy the forrests from them and manage them yourself, or through some
like minded organization. If you're right, you'll make a big profit and retire
rich.

But don't tell them to literally bet their lives your way is better while
absorbing none of the risk yourself.

The market will determine who was right in the long haul.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

Wdtabor wrote:

In article Co2Cb.502462$HS4.3878194@attbi_s01, "Jay Honeck"
writes:


How, exactly, does one pressure France?

Short of standing on their border and shouting at them in German.

On the contrary, I believe we have found the PERFECT method of pressuring
the French (and other so-called "allies") -- we have quite simply
disqualified them from bidding on any reconstruction contracts in Iraq.

This has been "Big News" the last couple of days, as if it were somehow
revolutionary to exclude disloyal nations from reaping the benefits of our
labors. Personally, I call it "justice".

Money talks.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not really disagreeing with the principle. We
are certainly within our rights to dole out the spoils of war as we see
fit.

On the other hand we may have missed an opportunity to mend some fences and
change the perception that the war was really about enriching our economic
interests. Money talks indeed.

Regardless of whether it was the best policy choice or not, they have
botched it in the way it was handled. The timing was incredibly bad, coming
on the heels of another Halliburton scandal. And by trying to circumvent
our own trade aggreements in such a transparent manner we've negated most
of our own credibilty.

Policies driven by vindictiveness will hurt us more than help us. We ought
to above that sort of thing. Apparently we are not a superpower when it
comes to statesmanship.

Expect Bush to let them bid after they forgive all or part of the Iraqi
debt.

Which should be called the Baathist debt since the Iraqi's never benefited
from it, and they should be collecting it from Saddam.

But still, when they make the cocession of forgiving that debt, Bush will
let them in .

It might have worked that way, but I fear both sides have become entrenched
in childish contrariety.


--
Frank....H

"R. Hubbell" wrote in message
news:GZ9Cb.177$pY.171@fed1read04...
Check out
the Toyota Prius. They're selling like hotcakes even with high tariffs.


GIG Wrote
That is what an free market does. Left alone a free market will cause
all
materials to be used for the most efficient use.


Dream on.

Your argument proves my point. If it becomes important enough the market
will deal with the problem. In this case the Toyota Prius. But I'd be
willing to bet they are not out selling SUVs.

"Carl Ellis" wrote in message
om...
"Gig Giacona" wrote in message
...
Name one thing, of which, the planet has ever run out. Trees can be
replanted and in a matter of years you can't tell they were ever gone.

We will not ever run out of oil. It will become more expensive but as it
does the motivation to create an alternative will increase.

That is what an free market does. Left alone a free market will cause
all
materials to be used for the most efficient use.

I think there some confusion about what the "most efficient use"
means.

It does not mean in the most conservative manner, or in a manner which
maximizes its use or availability or longevity, nor does it mean for
the higher good or best use, whatever that may be.

It means in a manner which maximizes the profit derived from its use.

- Carl -


There is no confusion on my part you are exactly right.

Gig Giacona wrote:

And with the advances in science I wouldn't bet the farm that there will
never be another marketable Cuban mahogany tree IF there is sufficient
demand.

No way. They only grow to marketable size and quality when surrounded by other
trees at least 60 feet tall. In other words, you would have to restore most of
the Cuban rainforests to restore the mahoganies. About 500 years *after* you
restore those forests, you can harvest your first Cuban mahogany.

There are similar problems with the pines. A tree growing up in a mature forest
grows slowly and keeps branches only near the top. This is what is meant by the
term "old growth tree". Such a tree is very hard for its species, has growth
rings that are closely spaced, and has very few knots. A pine grown this way
also takes over 60 years to reach marketable size. Commercially grown pines are
planted all at the same time. They get lots of sunlight and develop dense lower
branches. As the trees mature, the lower branches lose the light and die. Every
place there was a branch, there's a knot, and these knots go nearly to the
heart of the tree. The tree reaches marketable size in 20 years, but the wood is
relatively soft, the growth rings are far apart, and it's full of knots. As a
result of these defects, the stuff is far less stable (more prone to warp), and
larger timbers must be used to provide the support of older wood.

What's worse, the lumber companies clear-cut stands of hardwoods and replant
pines. There are still decent quantities of cherry, but American walnut will
probably be extinct within your lifetime. As I said, nobody is going to farm a
tree that takes 160 years or more to reach marketable size.

As far as southern pine is concerned, yes, your grandchildren could have the old
quality wood. All you have to do is use harvesting techniques that cost five
times as much as clear-cutting and harvest about 1/3 of the wood that Georgia
Kraft would harvest off the same acreage. Possible, yes. But you're an idiot if
you think it will ever happen.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

Gig Giacona wrote:

And with the advances in science I wouldn't bet the farm that there will
never be another marketable Cuban mahogany tree IF there is sufficient
demand.



Yes, this is an argument that is often made, the market will save us all
with advances in technology and science and efficiency. The market serves
itself, what is good for the market is not necessarily good for the public.
Their interests may intersect but don't bet the farm on it.

- Carl -



---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Consider the Nader votes anti-Bush and Buchanan anti-Gore, add up the
other
candidates if you like in a similar fashion. Nowhere near overwhelming
and
the results seem to slightly favor Gore.

I call it as I see it. I don't care HOW many brainless knee-jerk Democrat
voter-drones live in the highest-population-density-inner-city cesspools --
this geographic map of the election results tells the tale:
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/usmap-large.gif
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

well, there is international law and there are international treaties.
ahhh, what the heck.

Heh.

The best line of the week was when President Bush, upon being told this same
line of bull, remarked dryly "International law? I better all my lawyer..."
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 03:08:29 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

well, there is international law and there are international treaties.
ahhh, what the heck.

Heh.

The best line of the week was when President Bush, upon being told this same
line of bull, remarked dryly "International law? I better all my lawyer..."

ya mean this works both ways? as the USA obviously ignores international
law (as so often [sic!]) you wouldn't be insulted when the "rest" of the
world treats you as you deserve, err, I mean, ignoring intl. law?

Jay, apply for a passport and travel abroad. You'll be surprised (if you
ever can open your eyes and mind).

#m

--
http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php
http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml