Katrina fall-out

"JH" == Jay Honeck writes:

JH Perhaps we shouldn't allow citizens of the U.S. to build in
JH areas that are absolutely, positively 100% guaranteed to
JH flood? How about we start by not allowing people to build
JH businesses and dwellings BELOW SEA LEVEL NEXT TO AN OCEAN?

About 25% of the Netherlands is below sea level, yet they have decided
that's an acceptable risk.

The reason might be because their decision-makers understand the
scientific/statistical principle that the statement "100% guaranteed
to flood" is meaningless. Even a statement using a number less than
100% is meaningless without a corresponding time period.

Apparently the Dutch have decided to build their levees so that their
flood return period, whatever it is (I'll guess it's over 1000 years),
is acceptable to them.

There are valid historic reasons for building near the ocean, and I'll
bet when New Orleans was started the land was not below sea level.

I saw a news clip of an interview with a US Army Corps of Engineer
general who seemed to know his stuff. According to him the levees
around NO have held in past storms up to their design. Katrina was
beyond their design strength and sure enough they failed.

Bob Fry wrote:

There are valid historic reasons for building near the ocean, and I'll
bet when New Orleans was started the land was not below sea level.

In fact, I just saw an AP article that stated that the old city (like the French
quarter) is in better shape than the rest of the city.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050905/...he_quarter_hk1

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote in message
...
In article ,
john smith wrote:
Interesting comments by the talking heads this morning.
Under the Renquist court, states rights were favored.
The question today is, will the new Supreme Court justices return
control to a more federal central system?

Aren't home rule and states rights the reasons for the New Orleans and
Lousiana debacles.

How could the federal government have enforced the madatory evacuation
order when the local and state didn't even bother?


Regardless of any opinions of the role of federal and state governments,
the fact is that the Constitution specifically prohibits federal
meddling in ANYTHING that isn't specifically stated in the Constitution.
It doesn't take much studying to determine that most of what the federal
government does is not constitutional. There is a mechanism to amend
the Constitution to permit additional federal authority, and that is the
mechanism that should be used--and not the courts--if the population
wants to grant the federal government greater authority.

The scary part about disasters like Katrina are the large populations
looking to the government, especially the federal government, to bail
them out. Decades ago, folks turned to their communities and local
governments for help, they toughed it out, and survived. In today's
world, responsible behavior is punished and irresponsible behavior is
rewarded with "free" hand-outs by the federal government.

I don't know much about the politicians in Louisiana, but I am having a
difficult time understanding why tens of thousands of folks would be
offered "refuge" at a location inside a city that is mostly below sea
level and surrounded by major bodies of water. Why weren't folks put on
buses and evacuated outside of the city to higher ground BEFORE the
storm?

Because the mayor did not act except to park the busses on low ground where
they soon became submarines.

It seems to me that the governor, mayor, and other state and
local politicians bear the brunt of the blame for the resulting human
debacle in New Orleans.



JKG

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Newps wrote:



Tom Fleischman wrote:

It may have been drastic but I personally cannot abide these assholes
anymore.

You can not believe how much easier it is to read these newsgroups now
that "Jay Honeck", "Bob Noel", "Newps", "Matt Whiting", "john smith",
"Dave Stadt", "Jonathan Goodish", "Cub Driver", "Otis Winslow", "W P
Dixon", "Gig 601XL Builder" and "George Patterson" now reside in my
kill file with the other trolls. It's amazing how much of the NG's
bandwidths are wasted by the spew of these black-hearted individuals,
and how little they actually contribute to on-topic discussions.



Sweet.

I was thinking the same ... we're in pretty good company! :-)

Matt

I think T-shirts are in order.

Tom, you're quite right about Jay's racist ravings, but thankfully
there aren't too many others like him. Jay will never get it, but
more do than don't. Hang around. Fortunately Jay's bigoted postings
and the responses tend to stick to subject header so it's easy to
delete the entire thread if you want.

You arrogant fool. You have NO idea what the inner cities are like, and you
have NO right to call me "racist."

This isn't a black issue AT ALL -- which you would know if you were only
smart enough to actually follow a thread from start to finish.

You and Fleishman can sit there with your high and mighty, holier than thou
attitudes, having never had a gun pointed at you, having never stepped
across a body (alive? dead? who knows?) to get into a ghetto house, and
having never had to see, daily, the human refuse that your stupid welfare
state has created. Year after year, generation after generation of ruined,
hopeless people -- because of people like YOU who believe that throwing
money at them will make them go away.

True, you can continue to bury your head in the sand with regard to the
inner city war zones Americans like you have created, and refuse to face,
but you will now do it with CNN, ABC, CBS, Fox News -- and people like me,
who worked in the inner city for seven years, collecting money --
continually pushing your face into the litter box.

This may be the only good thing that comes out of Katrina. Try not to choke
on it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In fact, I just saw an AP article that stated that the old city (like the
French quarter) is in better shape than the rest of the city.

Yep. The French Quarter was largely unscathed -- except by looting.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Matt,

Go back and read the thread.


I did. I fail to see what relevant context I left out. You claimed the
Dept of Homeland Security has been succesful in preventing terrorist
attacks. I asked for proof.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Jay,

Perhaps we shouldn't allow citizens of the U.S. to build in areas that are
absolutely, positively 100% guaranteed to flood? How about we start by
not allowing people to build businesses and dwellings BELOW SEA LEVEL NEXT
TO AN OCEAN?


You cannot seriously be that naive. Well, it seems you can.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Jay Honeck opined

And when (not if) it is destroyed, there will be people begging the
Federal
Government to come rebuild it.

Yeah, let's only settle in places that are completely safe from natural
disaster. Why don't we make a list of such places? I'll let you start.

Let's start he

Perhaps we shouldn't allow citizens of the U.S. to build in areas that are
absolutely, positively 100% guaranteed to flood? How about we start by
not allowing people to build businesses and dwellings BELOW SEA LEVEL NEXT
TO AN OCEAN?

It's (was) a free country... All we have to do is not to subsidise them or
(with warning) not to rescue them in case of disaster. If they still want to
build there is still the Darwin Awards.

Crikey, man, what does it take (in your world) to prove this point?




-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

George Patterson opined

Ash Wyllie wrote:

If premiums cover costs, why can't one get _private_ flood insurance?

You can, but the private companies don't give discounts for meeting Federal
construction standards.

That's nice, but it would be better not to build in flood prone areas in
the first place.

Well, people have been doing that for millenia for excellent reasons. They
aren't going to stop.

Fine, but not on my dime.


-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?