A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Washington DC airspace closing for good?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old August 5th 05, 10:19 PM
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 18:20:13 GMT, George Patterson
wrote in [email protected]::

Larry Dighera wrote:
It seems that the issue of the FAA closing the 2,000 square mile
airspace around DC is capable of generating a lot of heat among the
pilot community. Let's try to see if we can use this forum to
generate some light, and mount an effective opposition to the FAA's
NPRM: http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...4adiz-nprm.pdf


Not only that, but pull out the sections on how much this is going to cost the
FAA and hand that out to your aquaintances outside the aviation community.
Perhaps something along the lines of "their taxes" going to pay for
Congresscritters' cowardice and "feel-good" efforts would be in order.


Right. Now you're thinking along productive lines.

The NPRM is a rich source of information that can be used to make our
case. Perhaps each of us should take a section of it, and propose
comments about it that bolster our case.


Ads
  #72  
Old August 5th 05, 10:22 PM
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 17:45:39 GMT, Jose
wrote in ::


Suppose pilots boycotted DC? Not us spam cans, but bizjet pilots,
airline pilots and such... the ones that carry the Important People.


Civil disobedience isn't the best route for us at this time in the
NPRM process. We need to provide astute arguments that will dissuade
the FAA from adopting the permanent closure of 2,000 square miles of
airspace first.


  #73  
Old August 5th 05, 10:25 PM
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:30:54 GMT, Jose
wrote in ::


You don't have to be under the ADIZ to be affected by it.


Right. If adopted, permanent closure of 2,000 square miles of
airspace will set a precedent for additional closures in the future.


  #74  
Old August 5th 05, 10:36 PM
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 13:06:32 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
[email protected] wrote in [email protected]::


Ha good luck with that request.



Umm.. I see what you mean. Disappointing. :-(


  #75  
Old August 5th 05, 10:40 PM
bravocharlie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You don't have to be under the ADIZ to be affected by it.

You don't have to be affected by it to be offended by it either.


I am encouraged to hear both sentiments.

Another thing I'd like to mention is the sometimes effective strategy
of calling one's congressman. The FAA does have to answer to congress,
and at times, if a group puts enough pressure on enough represenatives,
change can occur.

-BC

  #76  
Old August 5th 05, 11:05 PM
Terry Briggs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

How does it affect me in Eastern Oregon?

Terry


"Jose" wrote in message
...
For some reason, I had assumed (wrongly, I guess), that most of the
people involved in this discussion where also in ADIZ and were thus
annoyed by this proposal.


You don't have to be under the ADIZ to be affected by it.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no
universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.



  #77  
Old August 5th 05, 11:11 PM
Terry Briggs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Fair enough. But how will your "attitude" prevail when Congress, the FAA,
CIA, TSA and Secret Service won't listen to you?

And furthermore, why is it an "attitude" when one has a view opposing yours?

It appears to me that the AOPA (no matter how many of us join) is toothless
and can't even win the minor skirmishes like Meigs.

I am just saying, we need to fight the battles we can win, and we can't win
the battle of the District of Columbia.

Now if you think that is just a "bad attitude," so be it.

Terry

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 10:35:07 -0700, "Terry Briggs"
wrote in ::

Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that it is hopeless to fight battles
like the Washington area ADIZ.


With such an attitude, you can be _assured_ that your view will not
prevail.

Given the fact that the FAA must address the points raised during the
NPRM comment period, each idea submitted in opposition to the NOPR
must be rationally explained away or adopted. This issue isn't really
about the number of pilots at this point in the process.



  #78  
Old August 5th 05, 11:13 PM
Terry Briggs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I am still lost on who is going to listen to your presentation, agree with
it, and take action that you will like.

Now, if you still think that is just an "attitude" problem that I have, come
on back after you have pounded your head against that brick wall.

Terry

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 18:20:13 GMT, George Patterson
wrote in [email protected]::

Larry Dighera wrote:
It seems that the issue of the FAA closing the 2,000 square mile
airspace around DC is capable of generating a lot of heat among the
pilot community. Let's try to see if we can use this forum to
generate some light, and mount an effective opposition to the FAA's
NPRM: http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...4adiz-nprm.pdf


Not only that, but pull out the sections on how much this is going to cost
the
FAA and hand that out to your aquaintances outside the aviation community.
Perhaps something along the lines of "their taxes" going to pay for
Congresscritters' cowardice and "feel-good" efforts would be in order.


Right. Now you're thinking along productive lines.

The NPRM is a rich source of information that can be used to make our
case. Perhaps each of us should take a section of it, and propose
comments about it that bolster our case.




  #79  
Old August 5th 05, 11:34 PM
Jose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

How does [the DC ADIZ] affect me in Eastern Oregon?

1: If you ever fly out here, you won't be able to fly in there. I live
in the Northeast, but have friends on the west coast, and will indeed be
flying up and down the Pacific coast in a light GA airplane. You may
well find yourself visiting friends on the East coast and flying up and
down the seaboard similarly.

2: Every thousand square miles of successful restriction makes it
easier to restrict another thousand square miles. Maybe some of them
will be in Eastern Oregon. Or Western Oregon (where you are likely to
fly to). Or Seattle. If Bill Gates wants to protect the Microsoft
Campus from terrorist attacks in a 150, he is likely to have
considerable influence over that airspace. Right now he won't have
enough to close Seattle, but the DC Restricted Area will play right into
his hands. (I'll refrain from attempting to decide which is better for
the country - a terrorist attack on DC or a terrorist attack on Redmond

3: The successful implementation of restrictions such as this one
further convinces the public that such restrictions are for the good of
the country, and that these little airplanes are dangerous, especially
when they fly around with no oversight whatsoever. This makes it easy
to pass more restrictive regulations on all flight - such as having all
nighttime VFR flights require a flight plan. Or all flights requring
radio contact with controllers. Or anything else you can imagine. It
amplifies the effect of such antics as the drunk stealing an airplane
from Danbury CT and flying at night into Weschester.

4: You might move East. More ironic things have happened.

There are more reasons, but the point is that the loss of freedoms is
like a Boa Constrictor. It happens little by little, unnoticed, until
you finally pass out and wonder how it happened.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #80  
Old August 5th 05, 11:37 PM
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 15:11:10 -0700, "Terry Briggs"
wrote in ::

And furthermore, why is it an "attitude" when one has a view opposing yours?


It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. It's about not making the
attempt to succeed that assures defeat.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NAS and associated computer system Newps Instrument Flight Rules 8 August 12th 04 05:12 AM
AOPA Sells-Out California Pilots in Military Airspace Grab? Larry Dighera Instrument Flight Rules 12 April 26th 04 06:12 PM
AOPA Sells-Out California Pilots in Military Airspace Grab? Larry Dighera Piloting 12 April 26th 04 06:12 PM
12 Dec 2003 - Today’s Military, Veteran, War and National Security News Otis Willie Naval Aviation 0 December 12th 03 11:01 PM
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools RT Military Aviation 104 September 25th 03 03:17 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2021 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.