Simpy One of Many Stories of a Time Not So Long Ago

"Badwater Bill" wrote

I was sitting there and thinking if I had a heart attack or the power
failed, even at 1000 feet per minute glide, I was 22 minute from
Earth. If I used 500 feet per minute I was 44 minutes from Earth.

.. I feel
much more at home than I do during the day when you look straight down
4 miles to the surface at houses or cars moving along on the freeways.
It's much easier to have no surface, just stars and strobes in the
distance...especially when I'm all alone.

How do you guys feel about that? I'm never on edge at night for some
reason when I'm at altitude and I'm alone. But during the day, I'm
always on edge when I'm alone up there for some reason.

It's like I'm not flying at all, I'm
just sitting there watching out the window at the beautiful heavens
surrounding me.

What do you guys feel in these conditions.

BWB

You said it all, yourself, in your post. At night, it is like a camping
trip, sitting in the middle of a field, or floating down the Amazon it a
boat. I have done that. So many stars. You realize you are not in a normal
place, but the beauty of nature blocks out all other thoughts.

In the day flights, there are two many visual cues to remind you that you
are in a potentially bad situation. You have that programed into your DNA,
from ancient man. A sense of "on edge" is a good thing for a stone age
man, ready to flee danger, when he is at risk.

See, we are all just primitive pukes, with a better bow and arrow, zipping
along where we shouldn't be. That sense of danger, and accomplishment, and
pride over controlling the situation is what appeals to us. Anyone that
flies, is a control freak. Right?

So there it is. You are not in control of your ancient instincts. How does
that sit with you?
--
Jim in NC


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(pacplyer) wrote in message . com...
If you ditched in a river or bailed out: Every
peasant with a sharp piece of bamboo who saw you for miles around
would start making their way toward you to get in on the torture.

PAC,

My granfather hid a two downed airmen and walked them to safety in
Thailand. He was not political. He didn't care that the lands were
being bombed by the US. He wanted no part of the bloodshed and he
wished the war would end soon. He lived through the occupation of the
Japanese, the French...etc. He just wanted peace.


Human life in SE asia to this very day just does not have any value.
The price of a human life in the Philippines now is about $1,500.00.
USD. That is what you are expected to pay the relatives if you kill
one of their family members drinking and driving out there (according
to the Auzzie ex-pats who have experienced this first hand.) And
that's it. Everybody's happy. No trial, no problem. Please hit
another one of my family members, I need the money... You had to
live there to really experience the indifference. A bus rolls down
the embankment with 30 pluss people in it every few months in Bagio.
Nobody cares. Bald tires? One lane mud road? Driver on uppers?
Nobody cares. I don't even want to know what happened to downed AA
guys in Laos or Cambodia. "Pol Pot's family taught me this? hold
still?" Sweet Jumping Jesus?

People do care, some may not, but majority do care. Noone wants to
loose their loved ones for any amount of money. There are people here
in the US just like anywhere in the rest of the world that would kill
their own mother for a dollar. As poor as those people are, they do
care. They are not happy with $1,500.00, but they make the best of
the situation. If they had a choice, they would demand more or not
loose their loved ones at all.

I don't think you really mean what you say above. Do you? If you
hang around bars in the Philipines or in Thailand, you will most
likely meet the lowest form of human beings in those countries. If
you go to the temples during celebrations or to the towns festivals
during holiday celebrations, you will meet nicer people than bar
people, people who have hopes and dreams for their family, people who
have not given up on life. You will see that people do value life and
live to enjoy life and further their family's happiness and well
being. You will see people rich with culture and tradition, who love
their families and their way of life. You know the story about the
three blind men and the elephant?

Bryan "the monk" Chaisone

Richard Lamb wrote in message ...
pacplyer wrote:

?Hay' Grump,

I gotta tell you I thought that was some pretty good enroute poetry
last post. You gotta include that with the rest of "The Badwater
files"

Here's mine:

*Soul searching in the thin air*

Night flying at high altitude. It is unnatural for airplanes to fly
at night up here. Especially in clouds at night. You are balanced on
a knifepoint, suspended in space with no sensation of any speed
whatsoever. It can be a surreal experience. Maybe it's the slight
hypoxia. If you do it for an hour, you may nod off, come back to, and
wonder if you're just sitting in a simulator on the ground. Maybe
you're just sitting out on the ramp in the dark and you haven't even
started this trip yet. Or worse? Maybe you're dead. It just doesn't
seem part of this life at all. It seems fake. It seems impossible
that here you are floating without any turbulence or stars or anything
except these voices in your head. Your breathing is slow and these
low detached voices are asking some gatekeeper for the "direct" way
home. There's just something supernatural about it all. It is not of
this world I tell you.

You are truly alone with your thoughts if you're solo at night and the
voices leave you. Just you and the stars and the weather. It does
have a pacifying effect on the soul. If music can tame the savage
beast, then being up here in this dark place with little magic lamps
glowing in front of your outstretched hands can cure all your worries
about the crumby world below. You are not supposed to be up here,
you know it, and the Gods are permitting it for some reason you'll
never be privy to. Thank god Apollo is in his Chariot on the other
side of the world right now. Why if he saw your complete control of
the night heavens, he might turn green with envy and strike your
mortal ship from the sky!

pacplyer

(goddamn it, I copied you again! Something about your love of flying
always gets me dreaming ? Thanks Bill.)


Saved, for further contemplation flying home some night...

You too, pacman.

Richard

Thanks Richard.

pacman

Hey Bryan Buddy,

I should have said: "Every communist with a piece of sharp Bamboo." My
post was not meant as a slight on the people in Asia. And that
observation was not gleaned from a barstool somewhere. I have been
flying the Orient since 1987 and lived there six years. I married an
Asian lady and have 19 dependants in the P.I. Whether you acknowledge
it or not, tragic death without any real government investigation is
common in SE Asia. The reasons are probably varied and stem from
over-population to simple poverty. Now if you're renting
helicopters, you're in a whole different social-economic class than my
mother-in-law whose neighbors struggle daily just trying to eat.
Lucky Filipinos make two-hundred pesos (four U.S. dollars) per day and
have a very different outlook on life than you do. This is not to
say that they don't have feelings or mourn their dead. But more than
a years wages in exchange for the life of one of your seven children
so the rest can eat is considered an acceptable exchange for most of
the squatters living in Manila. Ninety percent of the population in
that country is poor. They used to hold up starving babies against
the hotel limo when it got stuck in traffic on the way to Makati.

I made the mistake of rolling down the window and handing the kids all
the money in my wallet one day. It nearly caused a riot. Several
dozen street kids started banging on the roof of the hotel limo with
metal coins. The driver was so ****ed at me. "Captain, please don't
do that!" The guy loved his imported Mercedes and I had just ****ed up
the paint job – big time.

Now Thailand is a much more developed country that the Philippines
or Mainland China or Indonesia. On vectors into Bangkok, it always
amazed me looking out my Airbus at the carpet of fancy tile roofs
surrounding the airport. You look out the window near Manila and all
you see are helter-skelter scraps of rusting corregated tin in between
filthy brown rivers and runoff. Every place in Asia is somewhat
different, but cultures on that side of the world more readily accept
disaster on a daily basis than we do here. If my single brother was
killed due to a bus driver on drugs in the U.S. and I found out it was
encouraged by management I'd demand and probably get media attention
about this some kind of way. But ferries to the provinces in the
Philippines tipping over with 300 plus over the max rating of the boat
are an annual occurrence and only Ex-Pats living there are outraged.
An attitude of: "God will protect us" is all you can get out of the
victim's families.


(bryan chaisone) wrote in message . com...
(pacplyer) wrote in message . com...
If you ditched in a river or bailed out: Every
peasant with a sharp piece of bamboo who saw you for miles around
would start making their way toward you to get in on the torture.

PAC,

My granfather hid a two downed airmen and walked them to safety in
Thailand. He was not political. He didn't care that the lands were
being bombed by the US. He wanted no part of the bloodshed and he
wished the war would end soon. He lived through the occupation of the
Japanese, the French...etc. He just wanted peace.


I think you grandfather was a great guy. My father-in-law remembers
as a little kid hiding in the bushes from the Japanese Imperial Army
who killed and tortured many villagers. The infamous "Battan March"
went right through the area. I really don't blame people, esp
uneducated peasants from wanting revenge from those that were
carpet-bombing their country. But when a pilot gets a mission, he is
expected to execute it without contemplating the moral consequences of
his action. He just hopes he won't get his ass shot off and he hopes
he won't have to answer for carrying out the mandate of some
screwed-up moron like Macnamere (sp?)



Human life in SE asia to this very day just does not have any value.
The price of a human life in the Philippines now is about $1,500.00.
USD. That is what you are expected to pay the relatives if you kill
one of their family members drinking and driving out there (according
to the Auzzie ex-pats who have experienced this first hand.) And
that's it. Everybody's happy. No trial, no problem. Please hit
another one of my family members, I need the money... You had to
live there to really experience the indifference. A bus rolls down
the embankment with 30 pluss people in it every few months in Bagio.
Nobody cares. Bald tires? One lane mud road? Driver on uppers?
Nobody cares. I don't even want to know what happened to downed AA
guys in Laos or Cambodia. "Pol Pot's family taught me this… hold
still.." Sweet Jumping Jesus!

People do care, some may not, but majority do care. Noone wants to
loose their loved ones for any amount of money. There are people here
in the US just like anywhere in the rest of the world that would kill
their own mother for a dollar. As poor as those people are, they do
care. They are not happy with $1,500.00, but they make the best of
the situation. If they had a choice, they would demand more or not
loose their loved ones at all.

I don't think you really mean what you say above. Do you? If you
hang around bars in the Philipines or in Thailand, you will most
likely meet the lowest form of human beings in those countries. If
you go to the temples during celebrations or to the towns festivals
during holiday celebrations, you will meet nicer people than bar
people, people who have hopes and dreams for their family, people who
have not given up on life. You will see that people do value life and
live to enjoy life and further their family's happiness and well
being. You will see people rich with culture and tradition, who love
their families and their way of life. You know the story about the
three blind men and the elephant?

Bryan "the monk" Chaisone

Hey Brian, hope I didn't offend you. Thailand and Laos are gorgeous
and I love the people there. I think about it often. Got to see the
largest reclining Buddha in the world, but I can't think of the name
of the temple right now.

Have fun with those wirrlybirds,

pac

Interesting observations by all. Thanks!
BTW, it's McNamara:
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r...fogofwar.shtml


"pacplyer" wrote in message om...
Hey Bryan Buddy,

I should have said: "Every communist with a piece of sharp Bamboo." My
post was not meant as a slight on the people in Asia. And that
observation was not gleaned from a barstool somewhere. I have been
flying the Orient since 1987 and lived there six years. I married an
Asian lady and have 19 dependants in the P.I. Whether you acknowledge
it or not, tragic death without any real government investigation is
common in SE Asia. The reasons are probably varied and stem from
over-population to simple poverty. Now if you're renting
helicopters, you're in a whole different social-economic class than my
mother-in-law whose neighbors struggle daily just trying to eat.
Lucky Filipinos make two-hundred pesos (four U.S. dollars) per day and
have a very different outlook on life than you do. This is not to
say that they don't have feelings or mourn their dead. But more than
a years wages in exchange for the life of one of your seven children
so the rest can eat is considered an acceptable exchange for most of
the squatters living in Manila. Ninety percent of the population in
that country is poor. They used to hold up starving babies against
the hotel limo when it got stuck in traffic on the way to Makati.

I made the mistake of rolling down the window and handing the kids all
the money in my wallet one day. It nearly caused a riot. Several
dozen street kids started banging on the roof of the hotel limo with
metal coins. The driver was so ****ed at me. "Captain, please don't
do that!" The guy loved his imported Mercedes and I had just ****ed up
the paint job - big time.

Now Thailand is a much more developed country that the Philippines
or Mainland China or Indonesia. On vectors into Bangkok, it always
amazed me looking out my Airbus at the carpet of fancy tile roofs
surrounding the airport. You look out the window near Manila and all
you see are helter-skelter scraps of rusting corregated tin in between
filthy brown rivers and runoff. Every place in Asia is somewhat
different, but cultures on that side of the world more readily accept
disaster on a daily basis than we do here. If my single brother was
killed due to a bus driver on drugs in the U.S. and I found out it was
encouraged by management I'd demand and probably get media attention
about this some kind of way. But ferries to the provinces in the
Philippines tipping over with 300 plus over the max rating of the boat
are an annual occurrence and only Ex-Pats living there are outraged.
An attitude of: "God will protect us" is all you can get out of the
victim's families.


(bryan chaisone) wrote in message . com...
(pacplyer) wrote in message . com...
If you ditched in a river or bailed out: Every
peasant with a sharp piece of bamboo who saw you for miles around
would start making their way toward you to get in on the torture.

PAC,

My granfather hid a two downed airmen and walked them to safety in
Thailand. He was not political. He didn't care that the lands were
being bombed by the US. He wanted no part of the bloodshed and he
wished the war would end soon. He lived through the occupation of the
Japanese, the French...etc. He just wanted peace.


I think you grandfather was a great guy. My father-in-law remembers
as a little kid hiding in the bushes from the Japanese Imperial Army
who killed and tortured many villagers. The infamous "Battan March"
went right through the area. I really don't blame people, esp
uneducated peasants from wanting revenge from those that were
carpet-bombing their country. But when a pilot gets a mission, he is
expected to execute it without contemplating the moral consequences of
his action. He just hopes he won't get his ass shot off and he hopes
he won't have to answer for carrying out the mandate of some
screwed-up moron like Macnamere (sp?)



Human life in SE asia to this very day just does not have any value.
The price of a human life in the Philippines now is about $1,500.00.
USD. That is what you are expected to pay the relatives if you kill
one of their family members drinking and driving out there (according
to the Auzzie ex-pats who have experienced this first hand.) And
that's it. Everybody's happy. No trial, no problem. Please hit
another one of my family members, I need the money... You had to
live there to really experience the indifference. A bus rolls down
the embankment with 30 pluss people in it every few months in Bagio.
Nobody cares. Bald tires? One lane mud road? Driver on uppers?
Nobody cares. I don't even want to know what happened to downed AA
guys in Laos or Cambodia. "Pol Pot's family taught me this. hold
still.." Sweet Jumping Jesus!

People do care, some may not, but majority do care. Noone wants to
loose their loved ones for any amount of money. There are people here
in the US just like anywhere in the rest of the world that would kill
their own mother for a dollar. As poor as those people are, they do
care. They are not happy with $1,500.00, but they make the best of
the situation. If they had a choice, they would demand more or not
loose their loved ones at all.

I don't think you really mean what you say above. Do you? If you
hang around bars in the Philipines or in Thailand, you will most
likely meet the lowest form of human beings in those countries. If
you go to the temples during celebrations or to the towns festivals
during holiday celebrations, you will meet nicer people than bar
people, people who have hopes and dreams for their family, people who
have not given up on life. You will see that people do value life and
live to enjoy life and further their family's happiness and well
being. You will see people rich with culture and tradition, who love
their families and their way of life. You know the story about the
three blind men and the elephant?

Bryan "the monk" Chaisone

Hey Brian, hope I didn't offend you. Thailand and Laos are gorgeous
and I love the people there. I think about it often. Got to see the
largest reclining Buddha in the world, but I can't think of the name
of the temple right now.

Have fun with those wirrlybirds,

pac

No sweat Pac, I knew you didn't mean to come out that way.

I just thought I put in my two cents. I think I sent you pictures of
my visits to Thailand. My grandfather's picture was among them. He
was a great man.

You gotta give these simple people credit. They had no TVs, radios or
telephones to communicate ideas between villages or each other, but
they each form their own oppinion of the war, any war. They don't
seam to just jump to each new idea, "oh the Americans are right, oh
the VCs are right...etc." The just wanted to be left alone. For
thousands of years they have lived that way. They have developed
cultures, traditions and way of life. They respected others. Lived
slongside their neighbors...etc. for thousands of years. They even
seamed to have population under control. Then civilization came
around and F'ed it all up.

Am I being too simple?

Bryan "the monk" Chaisone

(pacplyer) wrote in message . com...
Hey Bryan Buddy,

I should have said: "Every communist with a piece of sharp Bamboo." My
post was not meant as a slight on the people in Asia. And that
observation was not gleaned from a barstool somewhere. I have been
flying the Orient since 1987 and lived there six years. I married an
Asian lady and have 19 dependants in the P.I.

19 dependants, WOW. Can you really claim them all on your 1040?

Bryan "the monk" Chaisone

(bryan chaisone) wrote in message . com...
(pacplyer) wrote in message . com...
Hey Bryan Buddy,

I should have said: "Every communist with a piece of sharp Bamboo." My
post was not meant as a slight on the people in Asia. And that
observation was not gleaned from a barstool somewhere. I have been
flying the Orient since 1987 and lived there six years. I married an
Asian lady and have 19 dependants in the P.I.

19 dependants, WOW. Can you really claim them all on your 1040?

Bryan "the monk" Chaisone

None. But at least 100% of what I send gets to them. I have seen
rice sacks labeled: "U.N. NOT FOR RESALE" for sale in the market in
Olongapo. Unfortunately as well, the local orphanage has had no
childeren in it for years and is run by a "priest" who is an active
member of the IRA. Safe to assume those charitable contributions are
being used to purchase weapons instead of feeding the hungry. You
just wouldn't believe what I've seen over there.

See ya Monk,

pac

(bryan chaisone) wrote in message . com...
No sweat Pac, I knew you didn't mean to come out that way.

I just thought I put in my two cents. I think I sent you pictures of
my visits to Thailand. My grandfather's picture was among them. He
was a great man.

You gotta give these simple people credit. They had no TVs, radios or
telephones to communicate ideas between villages or each other, but
they each form their own oppinion of the war, any war. They don't
seam to just jump to each new idea, "oh the Americans are right, oh
the VCs are right...etc." The just wanted to be left alone. For
thousands of years they have lived that way. They have developed
cultures, traditions and way of life. They respected others. Lived
slongside their neighbors...etc. for thousands of years. They even
seamed to have population under control. Then civilization came
around and F'ed it all up.

Am I being too simple?


Bryan "the monk" Chaisone



No, I think you're right on. I'm ready for the simple life on a
little island with 100 native women using nothing but international
language to communicate. ;-) I may buy a boat later this year and
disappear into the south pacific (for some reason the wife still says:
NO.)

I think my email didn't accept you pictures, but it's probably
something I'm doing wrong. Was it in an attachment?

pac

Pacplyer wrote:
None. But at least 100% of what I send gets to them. I have seen
rice sacks labeled: "U.N. NOT FOR RESALE" for sale in the market in
Olongapo. Unfortunately as well, the local orphanage has had no
childeren in it for years and is run by a "priest" who is an active
member of the IRA. Safe to assume those charitable contributions are
being used to purchase weapons instead of feeding the hungry. You
just wouldn't believe what I've seen over there.

See ya Monk,

pac

PACMAN,

Sounds like you have seen alot. Maybe a vacation to Chiangmai,
Thailand will loosen you up. It is a beautiful northern area of
Thailand and prices are very reasonable.

Bryan "the monk" Chaisone