F-14 vs. F-15 accel.

"Pechs1" wrote in message
...
John- That pretty much sums it up (although IME the so-called super fox
was
not
so super when it was just man y mano).

Exactly where it excelled ... humbling the Gen 4 jets in 1v1. BRBR

I agree-Don't know who said the F+ was so 'super' but it certainly was.
Flaps
at 1/2, slats out, the ability to point and harass in the 100 kt range was
impressive.

Yep. They took the T-45 out to Fallon and did a little training with it.
It's a dog clean (pitch buck just when it ought to be digging in to turn),
but half flaps are awesome. Climbing turns in the 100 - 110 range, turn
rates around 18-20/sec ... troublesome for the guys that like to throw out
the anchor.

R / John

"John Carrier" wrote in message
...
SNIP

I never lost a 1v1 to an A-4 -- ever. Can't say the same about some
others.

I always approach a "Never" statement from a fellow fighter pilot with a
certain level of skepticism. OTOH, I did a College Dart in an F-4 and
"never" got shot by an F-106 in ten sorties (TACTS data). But then again,
there was this ONE guy .... (and then there were the A-4's the USAF
invited to augment our 4 Phantoms ... they switched sides on day two much
to our chagrin).


Notice I didn't say "I've never been shot" nor did I say I've never lost a
1v1 -- rather, I never lost a 1v1 to an A-4. Lost to each of the 'teens' at
one time or another. As you point out, that's how one learns. (In
addition, I also learned 1v1 from a true master of the art before I ever got
to try my hand against dissimilar types). My first 1v1 dissimilar sortie
was against USAF AT-38, second against Canadian F-5A, third against VF-126
A-4F (circa 1984, P-8), fourth, a Miramar F-14A, and fifth a USAF Eagle.
After that, far too many to remember.

Frijoles- My first 1v1 dissimilar sortie
was against USAF AT-38, second against Canadian F-5A, third against VF-126
A-4F (circa 1984, P-8 BRBR

Your third ever 1v1 against a VF-126 A-4E/F...and you won? Must have been such
that the A-4 was 'hands tied' somehow via the brief.

If it's a visual setup, like a mile abeam, 350 kts, tough to beat the
'Dog'...or maybe it was Donk flyin??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

As for anybody sayin' "I never lost to a (put A/C here)", I got spanked twice,
in engagements that are embarrassing.

Once against Wigs Ludwig, he in a F-4S, me in a Turkey(while in VX-4).

One was me(new VF-126 XO) in a A-4F+, Hoops Stewart, my main IUT instructor, in
a TA-4(P-6 engine), with Tumor(our RIO) in the trunk.

Both of these guys, who's aviation skills are legendary, beat me up pretty
good. I 'assumed' I had the superior A/C, and on paper, I did. Got beat
handily.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

On 12/23/04 8:51, in article ,
"Pechs1" wrote:

As for anybody sayin' "I never lost to a (put A/C here)", I got spanked twice,
in engagements that are embarrassing.

Once against Wigs Ludwig, he in a F-4S, me in a Turkey(while in VX-4).

One was me(new VF-126 XO) in a A-4F+, Hoops Stewart, my main IUT instructor,
in
a TA-4(P-6 engine), with Tumor(our RIO) in the trunk.

Both of these guys, who's aviation skills are legendary, beat me up pretty
good. I 'assumed' I had the superior A/C, and on paper, I did. Got beat
handily.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Wigs was my CAG in CVW-15 circa 91-92. A LEGENDARY aviator and all around
great guy. The whole air wing idolized him. Flew the Hornet, the Tomcat
(day/night), and got qualled in the SH-60 (even as a HAC IIRC).

--Woody

On 12/23/04 8:38, in article ,
"Pechs1" wrote:

Frijoles- My first 1v1 dissimilar sortie
was against USAF AT-38, second against Canadian F-5A, third against VF-126
A-4F (circa 1984, P-8 BRBR


That's a good training program. These days most dudes get their first 1v1
dissimilar as a Hornet vs. Hornet.

Your third ever 1v1 against a VF-126 A-4E/F...and you won? Must have been such
that the A-4 was 'hands tied' somehow via the brief.


Depends on the set-up and/or the "bogey charm."

If it's a visual setup, like a mile abeam, 350 kts, tough to beat the
'Dog'...or maybe it was Donk flyin??

Donk Ryan?

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:48:15 GMT, Woody Beal
wrote:

On 12/23/04 8:38, in article ,
"Pechs1" wrote:

Frijoles- My first 1v1 dissimilar sortie
was against USAF AT-38, second against Canadian F-5A, third against VF-126
A-4F (circa 1984, P-8 BRBR


That's a good training program. These days most dudes get their first 1v1
dissimilar as a Hornet vs. Hornet.

Isn't there an oxymoron embedded in that statement? Is it done by
loading a different FCS software?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org

Isn't there an oxymoron embedded in that statement? Is it done by
loading a different FCS software?

Nope. One is standard color, the other in Adversary cammo. =))
_____________
José Herculano

AHHHHH good 'ole VC/VFC-12 i was a plane captian and avionic's tech from '85
to '88 ISTR our pilots could generally get a win in 1v1 esp. if flying the
A-4F's we had tho they really didnt like flying againest S-3's of all things
as they put it "they could turn inside their own a**holes esp down low
"Elmshoot" wrote in message
...
Hoops Stewart, my main IUT instructor,
in
a TA-4(P-6 engine), with Tumor(our RIO) in the trunk.

I know the Traning command put some more restrictions on us like no Flaps
during the fight, so it was far game to throw them out in the fleet?
Also I remember that NATOPS prohibited aero braking after landing but when
I
got to VC-12 OMARS it was considered normal to Aero Brake after touchdown
I was
shocked the first time it happened. It was my first experience flying a
MAX
weight A-4 as well. Two full drops and an RMK-31 tow reel pod on the
centerline. The brief was if anything happened to the engine below 1000'
automatic eject. Up to 5K you get one attempt to figure out and do
something
then step out. What a PIG!!!
Sparky

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:22:11 -0000, "José Herculano"
wrote:

Isn't there an oxymoron embedded in that statement? Is it done by
loading a different FCS software?

Nope. One is standard color, the other in Adversary cammo. =))
_____________
José Herculano

Now that you've raised the curtain, I begin to see all sorts of
dissimilarity opportunities in 1-v-1 with the same type of aircraft:

1.) Could be a male versus a female.
2.) Could be operational vs a nugget.
3.) Could be instructor vs a student.
4.) Could be one with live ordnance and one without.
5.) Could be from different squadrons.
6.) Could be one single vs one married.

There's no limit to the same aircraft dissimilar opportunities when
operating under budget constraints.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org