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Differences in Italian vs US soaring instruction?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 17th 03, 02:46 PM
Tim
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"Stephen Cook" s comments read:

Two pilots in my club have recently completed an assistant instructors
course in the UK. Apparently they are now being taught not to turn, but to
achieve separation from the tug by climbing (i.e. slowing down) straight
ahead.


Which would mirror my recent flight with the National Coach who said
"climb to achieve separation"
--
Tim - ASW20CL "20"
  #22  
Old July 17th 03, 03:41 PM
Simon Walker
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I think I know him or, one just like him! :-)


At 14:54 17 July 2003, Tim wrote:
Simon Walker s comments read:

Well, in any situation there are always going to be
'Ah but what if's'
That's why we all, hopefully, use a big dash of common
sense when flying, try and anticipate possible problems
and modify our actions to minimise the risk in any
given situation.


Absolutely - I was just thinking an ex-tuggie I knew
and feared.

Occasionally the best option was 'Winch please!'
--
Tim - ASW20CL '20'




  #24  
Old July 18th 03, 09:22 PM
Stefan
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Michael wrote:

This is exactly what I don't wish to do. He doesn't need a complete
transition course, power to gliding. He is already a competent glider
pilot. Repeating the basics would be a waste of time and money.


Agreed. But why not sit down with him and discuss the procedures? As I
interpret your posts, in the USA, you have fairly strict procedures
written on paper. In other countries, this is not nesseceraily so. I
don't know for Italy, but in Switzerland, it's pretty much up to the
individual instructor, which procedures he emphasises. E.g. you must do
a cross country with an instructor before you're allowed to take the
checkride. But nowhere it is written what the instructor tells you
during this cross country. So good instructors have you prepare the
flight, draw circles on the map around the airports, have you do all
kinds of calculations during the flight, often ask you where you would
land from here, ask you where the next thermal is supposed to be etc. If
you do the same flight with a bad instructor, then it's just a nice
flight from which you won't learn much. so I really think your best
choice would be to spend an hour and dicuss the procedures.

Stefan
  #25  
Old July 20th 03, 05:20 AM
miriano
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Micael

I just happen to be an Italian pilot who now flies out of Minden. The
only substantial difference that I can think of is that in Italy we do
not have a real equivalent of a PTS, the description of the practical
exams for the licence is not so detailed. I'm not sure if this is good
or bad, on one side pilots do not end up with "if I know to do A, B
and C in this exact way I'm good enough", on the other the practical
knowledge is pretty much depending from the person of your instructor.
Maybe some other italian fellow pilot can comment on this.

That said, I've got the occasion to fly in different places in Italy
and in France before coming here. Almost all places (every different
club/operation) are actually having some kind of "special" way to do
things. Here I've flown only out of Minden and Truckee, and while I do
have seen interesting and distinctive points (that famous "waggling
the tail" to start...) they are not much more than everything a good
pilot have to check out anycase while flying on a new airport.

....I'm just wondering, how happened that guy has US power and CFI, and
then Italian gliders?...

Of course, if you have any specific question I might help you out you
can contact me directly.

Regards


(Michael) wrote in message . com...
Can anyone who is familiar with soaring instruction in the US and
Italy comment on the differences? I ask because I have started
training a 'student' - actually an Italian licensed glider pilot - who
wants to add US glider ratings to his US commercial and CFI
certificates. His flying is generally very good, but I have already
noticed that there are things he is not familiar with that any US
glider pilot with a hundred flights would certainly know.

So far, I've noticed that there are certain wing runner signals he is
not familiar with - I assume this is because Italian procedures differ
from those in the US. He also has obviously had no instruction in
formal glider XC planning (as opposed to actually flying XC - this he
has done) and has never heard of the PTS accuracy landing as we do it
in the US.

I would appreciate as much information on the differences between the
US and Italian systems of instruction as possible, mainly so that I
can identify the likely problem areas and make sure we cover them in
depth. I've tried to find the Italian equivalent of a glider PTS, and
have had no luck at all.

Michael

  #26  
Old July 21st 03, 03:30 PM
Michael
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Stefan "stefan"@mus. INVALID .ch wrote
Agreed. But why not sit down with him and discuss the procedures?


We did, at length. And I was able to identify a number of areas where
his training was different, and in some cases not as extensive as in
the US. Of course we went over those areas (including, surprisingly,
some flight maneuvers) until he was up to us comm/CFI standards.

But this is my very first time training a CFI candidate OR a foreign
transition pilot, in any category/class. Call it paranoia if you
will, but in so far as it is humanly possible, I wanted to be sure
there were no fine points that I left out.

As I
interpret your posts, in the USA, you have fairly strict procedures
written on paper.


We have the Practical Test Standards and the Soaring Flight Manual.
Due to the nature of our training, ALL US-trained pilots are familiar
with both. The former describes the checkride maneuvers and
performance standards; the latter normal operating practices. Thus we
all have the same signals, we all turn the same direction on release,
etc...

so I really think your best
choice would be to spend an hour and dicuss the procedures.


We have spent significantly more than an hour. Had we uncovered only
two or three differences, I would be less concerned. But we uncovered
many, which makes me concerned that maybe we missed something.

Michael
  #28  
Old July 21st 03, 04:06 PM
Stefan
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Michael wrote:

We have the Practical Test Standards and the Soaring Flight Manual.
Due to the nature of our training, ALL US-trained pilots are familiar
with both. The former describes the checkride maneuvers and
performance standards; the latter normal operating practices. Thus we
all have the same signals, we all turn the same direction on release,
etc...


This makes me think: Why not have him read those two books? Just an idea...

Stefan
  #29  
Old July 22nd 03, 03:33 PM
Michael
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Stefan "stefan"@mus. INVALID .ch wrote
This makes me think: Why not have him read those two books? Just an idea...


Of course I did. In the US, it is almost unthinkable to send a
student to a glider checkride who had not seen these books. The fact
remains that the Soaring Flight Manual mostly contains information
that is already familiar to him. When one must read a book containing
mostly familiar information, it is only human to move quickly - and
maybe miss something.

Michael
  #30  
Old July 22nd 03, 05:57 PM
Tony Verhulst
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Mark James Boyd wrote:
The only thing you can be absolutely certain he DOESN'T know is
the US CFR's.


Not at all. If you read the original post that started this discussion,
you'll see that the Italian student already has a US comm/CFI power rating.

Tony V.

P.S You're a company called "Powergen" and you have an Italian
subsidiary and you don't know English. What would you call the web site?
How about http://www.powergenitalia, of course. This is a legit web site
- not a joke.

 




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