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#31
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"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ups.com... The only reason they hire someone is so they can make money for the company. If your not needed your gone, if they don't get rid of you eventfully you will get rid of the company. It's such a beautiful law of nature. However, unions alter it and can only result in a less than perfect outcome. Companies make money by retaining (i.e. compensating) the best people and getting rid of the dead weight. Unions are the equalizers and prevent the best employees from getting their share so the dead weight can be carried. When they increase the pay above what the company needs to pay to get the people they need, they create a shortage of employment (i.e. a surplus of applicants). So you have people who want to work for the company but can't because there is a waiting list and the normal supply/demand of the employment market have been broken. -Robert You are 100% right. This is especially true with highly skilled labor. The company has to keep the duds because of seniority this lets the cream of the crop go to other company's. The more skilled one is the less he needs the union. I have always thought the union protects the lazy and stupid. Now I am not saying their are a lot of smart hard working union members and some companies use the union to their advantage. Their are also a lot of bad run companies with or without the union. |
#32
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("sfb" wrote)
Didn't Checchi get the money from the stock market and not from NWA? Wasn't the point of the post you snipped that the market value collapsed after Checchi left? The politicians in the People's Republic of Minnesota would have been screaming bloody murder if had raided the corporate coffers. Where did Checchi get the stock? NWA. How did he finance his takeover? NWA operating money. How did he get paid before he bailed with his stock? Staggering management fees payed by NWA monies - No, I didn't say profits. Checchi raided the coffers of the State too. Loans, bailouts, building projects, etc. Billion dollars would have bought a few extra planes. Montblack |
#33
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"George Patterson" wrote in message news:122Ye.8139$LV5.1123@trndny02... Matt Barrow wrote: They could not compete PERIOD. Their management was trained and brought up in the world a heavy regulation and was thus completely out of the water on running a competitive enterprise. I think you've hit the main reason. As they grow, companies develop a "corporate culture" caused by the fact that existing managers tend to promote people who do things the same way they do. As time goes on, this "culture" may get out of touch with reality. About the only thing that will change it is a hostile takeover. That's a large factor, but they also get n trouble earlier when they move out of the enrapreneurial phase and past the growth phase and start hiring "professional managers" instead of promoting from within. The professionals are often the ones raised on regulation and bureaucracy. They often do worse than those who learned the business from the ground up. A manager who came up with the company is more interested in seeing it thrive; a "professional" (IME) is mainly concerned with making monthly numbers, is risk averse and focusing on his bonus. Look at any of the Fortune level firms that have been around for a hundred years or more (P&G, for example) and you'll find very few high level people brought in from outside the company. -- Matt --------------------- Matthew W. Barrow Site-Fill Homes, LLC. Montrose, CO |
#34
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:33:24 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote: "Jon A" wrote in message .. . Unions are there to protect the working class from unfair management practices, which unfortunately shows their true colors. What unfair management practices? Ones that would be allowed to proliferate if no unions were present. How about 14 hour work days with no breaks for starters? I really don't believe that someone who is as learned as you appear to be would ask that question. Check a history book if you want to know more. |
#35
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:32:13 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote: In article , Jon A wrote: Unions are there to protect the working class true. What prevents unions from abusing the workers or the company? Unfortunately, the workers themselves must hold the union management to task. Doesn't work in some instances which seems to be a commonality within the human race - - - greed! |
#36
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Jon A wrote:
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:33:24 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: "Jon A" wrote in message . .. Unions are there to protect the working class from unfair management practices, which unfortunately shows their true colors. What unfair management practices? Ones that would be allowed to proliferate if no unions were present. How about 14 hour work days with no breaks for starters? I really don't believe that someone who is as learned as you appear to be would ask that question. Check a history book if you want to know more. Which has been turned into law, so the need for unions to enforce this has pretty much gone away. What has not gone away is the ability for unions to backmail companies into agreeing to contracts that cripple their ability to compete. Unions played a important role in the creation of fair labor laws to protect workers but the need for them in that role has passed and now they are hurting the workers more then helping them as a company that goes out of business employs no one. |
#37
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"Jon A" wrote in message ... On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:32:13 -0400, Bob Noel wrote: In article , Jon A wrote: Unions are there to protect the working class true. What prevents unions from abusing the workers or the company? Unfortunately, the workers themselves must hold the union management to task. Doesn't work in some instances which seems to be a commonality within the human race - - - greed! Millions and millions of jobs have left this country due to union mis-management and greed. For some reason the unions don't mention that fact. |
#38
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"Aluckyguess" wrote
You are 100% right. This is especially true with highly skilled labor. The company has to keep the duds because of seniority(.) this lets the cream of the crop go to other company's.(companies) The more skilled one is(,) the less he needs the union. I have always thought the union protects the lazy and stupid. Now I am not saying their(there) are a lot of smart(,) hard working union members and some companies use the union to their advantage. Their(There) are also a lot of bad(badly) run companies with or without the union. |
#39
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Aren't you ignoring that part of history where the Federal and many
states enacted labor laws? The unions aren't the only protection the employee has. Overtime after forty hours is a Federal Law. "Jon A" wrote in message ... On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:33:24 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: "Jon A" wrote in message . .. Unions are there to protect the working class from unfair management practices, which unfortunately shows their true colors. What unfair management practices? Ones that would be allowed to proliferate if no unions were present. How about 14 hour work days with no breaks for starters? I really don't believe that someone who is as learned as you appear to be would ask that question. Check a history book if you want to know more. |
#40
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"Jon A" wrote in message ... On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:33:24 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: "Jon A" wrote in message . .. Unions are there to protect the working class from unfair management practices, which unfortunately shows their true colors. What unfair management practices? Ones that would be allowed to proliferate if no unions were present. How about 14 hour work days with no breaks for starters? I really don't believe that someone who is as learned as you appear to be would ask that question. Check a history book if you want to know more. While this may have been true in the past the Dept of Labor both of the federal and state do a pretty damn good job of not allowing this to happen today. To say that we need unions to stop this today is like saying we need an ongoing civil war to make sure we don't have slavery. |
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