Ventus 2b vs ASW27b ..Which is the better / nicer aircraft?

A question for Hank Nixon and other refinishers.
How much in 2020 to drop one of these planes off at your shop and get it Completely refinished? All the extras- total price ?
Thanks in advance!

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 10:04:18 AM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
A question for Hank Nixon and other refinishers.
How much in 2020 to drop one of these planes off at your shop and get it Completely refinished? All the extras- total price ?
Thanks in advance!

A good bet is to join a couple others and send to M&D or one of the other resources in Europe. I understand cost is about $30,000, plus portion of shipping.
I don't know who in the US is actively seeking refinish work. Maybe Williams in CA, Fidel in NM.
Ball park in the US is about $30K for the whole job if you can find an interested shop.
FWIW
UH

Recent conversation with a well-known commercial glider repair station owner.

Me: How much (ballpark) would it cost to get a 15M glider refinished in Poly. Assume standard crazing and no repairs required.

Him: Wouldn't touch it for less than $25K.

Me: That's not as bad as I thought.

Him: Yeah, well, as soon as you say that I'd raise the price to $30K. And I'd keep raising it until you give up. :-)

Our club is on our 3rd full refinish in the last 8 years (different ships). Even with a dozen or more skilled/semi-skilled helpers available, I'm getting kinda burned out. Couldn't imagine doing 3 or 4 per year!

P3



On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 11:00:16 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 10:04:18 AM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
A question for Hank Nixon and other refinishers.
How much in 2020 to drop one of these planes off at your shop and get it Completely refinished? All the extras- total price ?
Thanks in advance!

A good bet is to join a couple others and send to M&D or one of the other resources in Europe. I understand cost is about $30,000, plus portion of shipping.
I don't know who in the US is actively seeking refinish work. Maybe Williams in CA, Fidel in NM.
Ball park in the US is about $30K for the whole job if you can find an interested shop.
FWIW
UH

Flying/handling wise, western USA, 27. Loved it. For me, 6 feet, short legs long back 27 is perfect.

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 5:49:05 PM UTC-5, Pasi Pulkkinen wrote:
Flying/handling wise, western USA, 27. Loved it. For me, 6 feet, short legs long back 27 is perfect.

Ok , I never post , but..

Were you flying a DG 300? many many years ago on the Pine Nuts , and met up with a black GLIDER ?? Seem to remember your name

HW

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
Recent conversation with a well-known commercial glider repair station owner.

Me: How much (ballpark) would it cost to get a 15M glider refinished in Poly. Assume standard crazing and no repairs required.

Him: Wouldn't touch it for less than $25K.

Me: That's not as bad as I thought.

Him: Yeah, well, as soon as you say that I'd raise the price to $30K. And I'd keep raising it until you give up. :-)

Our club is on our 3rd full refinish in the last 8 years (different ships). Even with a dozen or more skilled/semi-skilled helpers available, I'm getting kinda burned out. Couldn't imagine doing 3 or 4 per year!

P3



On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 11:00:16 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 10:04:18 AM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
A question for Hank Nixon and other refinishers.
How much in 2020 to drop one of these planes off at your shop and get it Completely refinished? All the extras- total price ?
Thanks in advance!

A good bet is to join a couple others and send to M&D or one of the other resources in Europe. I understand cost is about $30,000, plus portion of shipping.
I don't know who in the US is actively seeking refinish work. Maybe Williams in CA, Fidel in NM.
Ball park in the US is about $30K for the whole job if you can find an interested shop.
FWIW
UH

There is a real opportunity in the US for a couple of motivated people to get into the refinishing business. The market is there.
The work is tedious, sometimes tiring, and messy.
I does not require a lot of capital to get started. It does need an experienced person to guide and advise until experience is gained.
The reward is the pleasure of making rats into beauties.
And it can supply an opportunity for steady work.
With the trend to finishing in AU the character of the work has changed a bit.
The removal part is the same as it was. There are some things that can help to shorten he time, but experience must be gained.
The prep for painting is longer than with polyester because the surface must be better. There isn't much to sand out flaws.
Spraying takes a bit more skill.
Sand out and polish is much quicker and easier.
It isn't hopeless, but it isn't trivial either.
UH

Nick- Give precedence to advice from pilots who have owned/flown both.

My 2 cents: Loved my 27B, never have flown the V2. With the 27B in western conditions, anything over a 3.33 knot day (standard IGC thermal at the time of design) is full ballast. Handling full is remarkably quick and it climbs really well at that high wing loading. It's also very easy to fly in good conditions as a flapped ship- you basically just have thermalling flap and running flap and it settles into correct speeds nicely without re-trimming in both modes. Knowing Gerhard Waibel and having worked with him some through the IGC Sailplane Development Panel, he did it all with lots of margin for error- outstanding engineering. Safe. Able to land really short in a jam and has very effective spoiler/landing flap combo. Good roll control until the end with the AS flap/aileron mixer.

Full of water, 27B performance is arguably still state of the art in 15m. Last year, at the South African Nationals where new JS-3 15m entries were the bulk of the racing class- 1st place, 2nd place, 3rd place were all ASW-27's if memory serves right. Mostly strong conditions throughout the contest. I can't seem to find this year's results. I'm not anti-JS, I fly the JS1C-21M now and it is spectacular. But the 27B is an absolute bargain if you find a decent one at market pricing. It would scream over the San Juan's.

Another factor to consider: Differences between the 27 and 27B were small- going to a wet tank and taller winglets. With the V2, how many changes were made over the years to keep up? There are so many combinations of tails, fuselages, winglets, etc. that you can hardly keep track of all the different versions. Gerhard essentially got it right from the start, with the design only seeing minor tweaks over a very long and successful production run. A remarkable design when introduced, and still remarkable.

Gary Osoba

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:04:18 AM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
A question for Hank Nixon and other refinishers.
How much in 2020 to drop one of these planes off at your shop and get it Completely refinished? All the extras- total price ?
Thanks in advance!

I had my LAK 17a refinished by Fidel last winter. His price is $30K and may vary a bit depending the square footage. Fidel is an artist and the finish is excellent.

Mike

Opps
I should have said:
How much is a refinish in Poly?

Nick,
Condition of the gelcoat is the ‘elephant in the room’ for most all ships offered. Paying 60K for 20 year old finish is questionable. My old LS-7 is up for sale and I have it on good report that it can be had for 35K! Easy flying machine and a good ship for western conditions. I flew my 1000K in her!
JJ