Cirrus or Lancair?

Don,

I don't know how the Legacy
compares to the Columbia,


Uh, not at all. One is certified, the other isn't.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Al,

How does this work?


Marketing departments?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Don,
I don't know how the Legacy
compares to the Columbia,

Uh, not at all. One is certified, the other isn't.

One retracts its gear and one doesn't...

Already eluded to the seating arrangements of the 2...

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 08:28:51 -0500, Darrel Toepfer
wrote:

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Don,
I don't know how the Legacy
compares to the Columbia,

Uh, not at all. One is certified, the other isn't.

One retracts its gear and one doesn't...

Already eluded to the seating arrangements of the 2...

Lancair also makes a Legacy FG.

Matt Barrow wrote:

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...

Matt Barrow wrote:


"Sandstone" wrote in message
...


Contemplating a Lancair to downsize my six seater to a four seat.

Seems, though, that the Cirrus SR-22 is rather more popular than the
Columbia 350.

Can anyone shed some insights on these two side-by-side?

Having flown both the SR22 and 350 quite a bit, the answer is clear:
Lancair Columbia 350 or 400. Go fly both and see for yourself. It's

kind

of like the old Beta vs VHS or Mac vs PC issue. The better product

isn't

always the most popular one.


In the case of VHS vs. Beta, people chose VHS because they could tape a

two

hour show on one tape -- somewhat of a wise decision.

Why people would choose Cirrus vs. Lancair is a different issue. My

guess is

that they are perceived to be identical, but the Cirrus being less

expensive

is the primary. Also, the Cirrus uses "Big Name" Garmin,

Incorrect. http://www.cirrusdesign.com/aircraft/avionics/pfd/


Hmmm...I thought they use the Garmin1000. Or is that just Cessna?

So why is Cirrus selling three times as many (??) aircraft?

I'm sure whoever can answer that question definitively for Lancair can
make a lot of money.

Thomas Borchert wrote:

Matt,


Also, the Cirrus uses "Big Name" Garmin, while the Lancair
uses small shop Avidyne (even if Avidyne is, IMNHO, superior).


They both use a combo of Garmin GNS transceivers and the Avidyne Entegra
displays. Exactly the same, though Lancair installs them in portrait
orientation, while in the Cirrus they are in landscape. Both do NOT use the
Garmin G1000.


According to some, Lancair is very stable, while Cirrus is, comparatively,
somewhat unstable.


Huh? Never heard that..


That impression may be driven by the fact that the only approved way to
recover from a spin in a Cirrus is to deply the parachute. Cirrus has
not, to my knowledge, demonstrated spin recovery capability any other
way (not saying it's not possible -- just hasn't been demonstrated or
approved)

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Thomas Borchert wrote:

Matt,


Also, the Cirrus uses "Big Name" Garmin, while the Lancair
uses small shop Avidyne (even if Avidyne is, IMNHO, superior).


They both use a combo of Garmin GNS transceivers and the Avidyne Entegra
displays. Exactly the same, though Lancair installs them in portrait
orientation, while in the Cirrus they are in landscape. Both do NOT use
the
Garmin G1000.


According to some, Lancair is very stable, while Cirrus is,
comparatively,
somewhat unstable.


Huh? Never heard that..


That impression may be driven by the fact that the only approved way to
recover from a spin in a Cirrus is to deply the parachute. Cirrus has
not, to my knowledge, demonstrated spin recovery capability any other
way (not saying it's not possible -- just hasn't been demonstrated or
approved)

IIRC, only their test pilots could recover and at that only after several
turns. A Lancair can recover in one turn. Also, IIRC, that's two turns
faster than most others.

Matt Barrow wrote:

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...

Thomas Borchert wrote:


Matt,



Also, the Cirrus uses "Big Name" Garmin, while the Lancair
uses small shop Avidyne (even if Avidyne is, IMNHO, superior).


They both use a combo of Garmin GNS transceivers and the Avidyne Entegra
displays. Exactly the same, though Lancair installs them in portrait
orientation, while in the Cirrus they are in landscape. Both do NOT use

the

Garmin G1000.



According to some, Lancair is very stable, while Cirrus is,

comparatively,

somewhat unstable.


Huh? Never heard that..


That impression may be driven by the fact that the only approved way to
recover from a spin in a Cirrus is to deply the parachute. Cirrus has
not, to my knowledge, demonstrated spin recovery capability any other
way (not saying it's not possible -- just hasn't been demonstrated or
approved)


IIRC, only their test pilots could recover and at that only after several
turns. A Lancair can recover in one turn. Also, IIRC, that's two turns
faster than most others.



Maybe so but the Cirrus is supposedly "spin resistant." How hard did
those test pilots have to work to get into the spin in the first place?
I don't recall hearing of any non-test-flight Cirrus spin incidents
resulting in either crashes or parachute deployments.

Personally, I'm not in the market for a $400K plane so I haven't put
much thought or research into it. However I do know that another
"feature" of the Cirrus chute is that you have to have it overhauled
every 10 years, the price is projected to be around $10K. How much
longer until lots of Cirri out there start reaching that time? It'll be
interesting to see what it really ends up costing and how hard it is to
get done.

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...

Matt Barrow wrote:


"Sandstone" wrote in message
...


Contemplating a Lancair to downsize my six seater to a four seat.

Seems, though, that the Cirrus SR-22 is rather more popular than the
Columbia 350.

Can anyone shed some insights on these two side-by-side?

Having flown both the SR22 and 350 quite a bit, the answer is clear:
Lancair Columbia 350 or 400. Go fly both and see for yourself. It's

kind

of like the old Beta vs VHS or Mac vs PC issue. The better product

isn't

always the most popular one.


In the case of VHS vs. Beta, people chose VHS because they could tape a

two

hour show on one tape -- somewhat of a wise decision.

Why people would choose Cirrus vs. Lancair is a different issue. My

guess is

that they are perceived to be identical, but the Cirrus being less

expensive

is the primary. Also, the Cirrus uses "Big Name" Garmin,

Incorrect. http://www.cirrusdesign.com/aircraft/avionics/pfd/


Hmmm...I thought they use the Garmin1000. Or is that just Cessna?

So why is Cirrus selling three times as many (??) aircraft?

I'm sure whoever can answer that question definitively for Lancair can
make a lot of money.

I'm sure they know why...in addition to it being much the same reason that
VW sells more cars than BMW (Cirrus sells to a lower cost market), and that
Lancair just completed a 144,000sf addition to it's manufacturing plant.
Also, Lancair was a bit later (?) getting into the certified market. Also,
Cirrus has distributors all over the US, Lancair has four.

What I'm asking is: What is the market perceptions?

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:


IIRC, only their test pilots could recover and at that only after
several
turns. A Lancair can recover in one turn. Also, IIRC, that's two turns
faster than most others.



Maybe so but the Cirrus is supposedly "spin resistant."

All non-military-fights planes are supposed to be "spin resistant", more or
less. Cirrus is the first to receive certification that was "spin
resistant", but non-recoverable, hence the chute.

How hard did
those test pilots have to work to get into the spin in the first place?

Probably recreating the scenario indicated from accident records.

I don't recall hearing of any non-test-flight Cirrus spin incidents
resulting in either crashes or parachute deployments.

There was a long thread in here about them several months back.

Personally, I'm not in the market for a $400K plane so I haven't put
much thought or research into it. However I do know that another
"feature" of the Cirrus chute is that you have to have it overhauled
every 10 years, the price is projected to be around $10K. How much
longer until lots of Cirri out there start reaching that time? It'll be
interesting to see what it really ends up costing and how hard it is to
get done.

Quite!