Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

On Saturday, February 20, 2016 at 1:23:11 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Anything interesting to report from Christoph Wannemacher's presentation on "Design Philosophy for the New Ventus" e.g information on the aspect ratio, aerofoil, wing thickness, transition position, turbulators etc?

John Galloway

From my notes:
600kg
10.83 m2/116.575 sq ft
55.4 kg/m2 11.35 psf
AR 29.9
sport (little - 2cxa size - based on 2cxa) side-hinged canopy
Goal of certification and having a number available for WGC Bennala
down the road, FES and T
then
performance edition (larger)
quintus cockpit
self-launch
(T or FES if demanded... but SL first)

Description of new wx model; validation using WGC Uvalde data and Euro championship. Result - you have 2 modes, thermalling or fast and spend almost no time at best L/D. goal to optimize for these 2 modes.

climb perf in weak small thermals - data from euro contests - lift that V2CXT couldn't climb in, V3 had theoretical 15 kph x-c speed (contests are won or lost on the weakest days).

Goal of increased cross-country speed.

Started with an aero check of Arcus from large contests to validate that aerofoil. Result - good basis for start of work on V3 ("new Ventus" according to S-H marketing but informally known as V3).

General of description of wing evolution from original Discus to this; discussion of winglets too (didn't take notes)

wing thickness
root 14.8%
closing in to root 12.9%
outboard of spoiler box 13.2%
blend near winglet 13.1%

Horizontal tail volume/area reduced

Flutter - certification for CS22 AL2 - higher torsional stiffness
Fuselage - higher crashworthiness = heavier fuselage

2 sets of water tanks (one small below bigger) - one release like zig-zag - looks like you dump the big one but keep a smaller volume that doesn't slosh when you have partial water (not stated but that's what it looked like to me - I have been wrong on this kind of thing).

Jan 29 first flight; to briefing date 20 flights / 13 hrs (wx has sucked in Europe)

Next, turbo in sport fuselage ~ 4-5 weeks. FES "in summer"

In 6 weeks, mockup of big version; canopy to be forward-hinged
carbon-fibre.

"later" - solo 2625-01 injected SL system - better high and hot

Questions - wing soft/stiff? Stiff. ran out of time for more...

Overall, an impression of a fast-moving, ambitious programme that starts with the pure gliders (small then big), and as resources permit, moving to turbo, then SL, then FES (if there is demand).

I think I have most of this correct - I was trying to pay attention and scribble mostly legible notes.

If you have questions, best to ask the dealer...

At 16:18 21 February 2016, Dan Daly wrote:
On Saturday, February 20, 2016 at 1:23:11 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
Anything interesting to report from Christoph Wannemacher's
presentation
=
on "Design Philosophy for the New Ventus" e.g information on
the aspect
rat=
io, aerofoil, wing thickness, transition position, turbulators etc?
=20
John Galloway

From my notes:
600kg
10.83 m2/116.575 sq ft
55.4 kg/m2 11.35 psf
AR 29.9
sport (little - 2cxa size - based on 2cxa) side-hinged canopy
Goal of certification and having a number available for WGC
Bennala
down the road, FES and T
then
performance edition (larger)
quintus cockpit
self-launch
(T or FES if demanded... but SL first)

Description of new wx model; validation using WGC Uvalde data
and Euro
cham=
pionship. Result - you have 2 modes, thermalling or fast and
spend almost
=
no time at best L/D. goal to optimize for these 2 modes.

climb perf in weak small thermals - data from euro contests - lift
that
V2C=
XT couldn't climb in, V3 had theoretical 15 kph x-c speed
(contests are
won=
or lost on the weakest days).

Goal of increased cross-country speed.

Started with an aero check of Arcus from large contests to
validate that
ae=
rofoil. Result - good basis for start of work on V3 ("new Ventus"
accordin=
g to S-H marketing but informally known as V3).

General of description of wing evolution from original Discus to
this;
disc=
ussion of winglets too (didn't take notes)

wing thickness
root 14.8%
closing in to root 12.9%
outboard of spoiler box 13.2%
blend near winglet 13.1%

Horizontal tail volume/area reduced

Flutter - certification for CS22 AL2 - higher torsional stiffness
Fuselage - higher crashworthiness =3D heavier fuselage

2 sets of water tanks (one small below bigger) - one release like
zig-zag
-=
looks like you dump the big one but keep a smaller volume that
doesn't
slo=
sh when you have partial water (not stated but that's what it
looked like
t=
o me - I have been wrong on this kind of thing).

Jan 29 first flight; to briefing date 20 flights / 13 hrs (wx has
sucked
in=
Europe)

Next, turbo in sport fuselage ~ 4-5 weeks. FES "in summer"

In 6 weeks, mockup of big version; canopy to be forward-hinged
carbon-fibre.

"later" - solo 2625-01 injected SL system - better high and hot

Questions - wing soft/stiff? Stiff. ran out of time for more...

Overall, an impression of a fast-moving, ambitious programme
that starts
wi=
th the pure gliders (small then big), and as resources permit,
moving to
tu=
rbo, then SL, then FES (if there is demand).

I think I have most of this correct - I was trying to pay attention
and
scr=
ibble mostly legible notes. =20

If you have questions, best to ask the dealer...

Thanks Dan. Very interesting. I asked the UK dealer for this type
of information a couple of weeks ago but none was available
then.
JG

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 3:47:36 AM UTC+11, smfidler wrote:
I'm starting to feel as if I'm at some boy band concert watching the girls screaming uncontrollably at the lead singer from the front row...

Just like the JS-1 camp learned, out designing the ASG-29 in all conditions and at all wing loadings is a very, very high bar to jump over cleanly.

Here is a towel.

Stop drooling all over yourselves and let's see if the V3 wins the 18 meter World Championship in Australia next January before loosing consciousness, screaming like school girls the latest, greatest boy band concert...

The V3 'might' just win the Worlds on its first go and even become a truly dominant 18m glider, but until it does, it's marketing hype. They will employ a surge of top pilots (disproportional distribution) trying to win their first worlds (see Quintus) and seal in the marketing investment. JS-1 tried this too but never made it over that pesky "ASG-29 bar." Pilots often trump a gliders true performance. Keep an eye on this.

Many, quite recently in fact, thought the JS-1 would dominate the ASG-29....but it has not. Only very recently, with the new EVO design, has the JS-1 begin to challenge the 29. And the JS1 has never won a FAI world championship against the enviable ASG29. Not once (well, if you count the last SGP World Championship,yes, but there was a valid wing loading fairness controversy at that smaller event)!

And, even if the V3 does prove a match or better, Schleicher will simply draw up a new 18 meter glider specifically intended to make the V3 obsolete, and so on... Maybe Schleicher is already well down the track on this new design already... Maybe they can simply improve the 29 with a new wing design like the JS-1 camp has with the new JS-1 Evo.

One thing is certain, the glider manufactures have you all right where they want you...buzzing wildly over almost nothing, fighting to hand over 200k checks in order to own (years from now) an unproven glider which many somehow absolutely (almost religiously) believe is sure to allow them to beat the pants off anyone flying the ASG-29 via its massive performance advantages. Good luck with this gentleman. I for one have seen this cycle many times before in many sports.

And, if the V3 is somehow completely unstoppable in 18 meter (as you suggest), we already have so many ASG29s in the USA that we could "put our hands up" and start a "29 ONLY class" (much less expensive than buying (and waiting for) a new V3 and all with identical performance while being well proven machines!). One design 18 meter the racing! ;-). It will be 5 years, minimum, before the V3 US numbers approach a third of the 29s. And that 1/3 number is only in a perfect world for Shempp Hirth, with no hiccups or issues with the design. You V3 "bling, bling" glider guys (if it's ridiculously better) might just have to fly in open class again the Concordia! :-)

So, I'm excited to see the V3 at the convention (and the buzz surrounding it) but won't be interested until it clearly proves that it is a significantly better (or even equal) sailplane to the ASG29 and the JS1 Evo in a wide range of conditions. Until it proves its worth with contest results. And even then, rather than jumping at it immediately, I'll be looking to see the reaction from the other manufacturers.

Amused and thoroughly enjoying the "screams and shouts of glee" from the SH fan boys...

Sean

Honey, I need a new glider, the one that I've got's obselete...