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Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 9th 16, 05:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
smfidler
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

I'm starting to feel like I am at a boy band concert watching the girls screaming uncontrollably in he front row as the lead singer sings to them...

Just like the JS-1 camp has learned, out designing the ASG-29 in all conditions and at all wing loadings is a very, very high bar to jump over cleanly..

Here is a towel.

Stop drooling all over yourselves and let's see if the V3 wins the 18 meter World Championship in Australia next January before loosing consciousness, screaming like school girls at a boy band concert.

The V3 'might' win the Worlds and become a dominant 18m glider, but until it does, it's mainly marketing hype. They will employ a surge of top pilots (disproportional distribution) trying to win their first worlds (see Quintus) and seal in the marketing investment. JS-1 tried this too and never quite made it over the "29 bar."

Many, quite recently in fact, thought the JS-1 would dominate the ASG-29...but it has not. Only very recently with the new EVO design has the JS-1 begin to seriously challenge the 29. The JS1 has still never won a world championship against the ASG29. Not once (well, if you count the last SGP World Championship,yes, but there was a valid wing loading fairness controversy at that event).

And, even if the V3 does prove a match or better, Schleicher will simply draw up a new 18 meter glider specifically intended to make the V3 obsolete. Maybe Schleicher is down the track on this design already... Maybe they can simply improve the 29 with a new wing design like the JS-1 camp has with the newJS-1 Evo.

One thing is certain, the glider manufactures have us all right where they want us right now...buzzing wildly over almost nothing, fighting to hand over 200k checks in order to own a yet unproven glider which many somehow absolutely believe will beat the the pants off the 29 via its performance advantages alone. Good luck with that thinking gentleman. I've seen this cycle many times before in many sports.

And, if the V3 is somehow unstoppable in 18 meter, we already have so many ASG29s in the USA that we could just start a "29 ONLY class" (much less expensive than a new V3 and all with identical performance and already well proven machines!). One design! ;-). It will be 5 years before the V3 numbers approach a third of the 29s already in the USA. And that number is only in a perfect world for Shempp Hirth, with no hiccups or issues with the design. You V3 bling, bling glider guys will have to fly in open class again the Concordia!

So, I'm excited to see the V3 (and the buzz surrounding it) but won't be interested until it proves that it is a significantly better (or even equal) sailplane to the ASG29 and the JS1 Evo in a wide range of conditions. And even then, rather than jumping at it immediately, I'll be looking to see the reaction from the other manufacturers.

Amused and thoroughly enjoying the screams and shouts of glee (and drool) from the SH crowd... You can keep the towel.

Sean


  #12  
Old February 9th 16, 05:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
smfidler
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

I'm starting to feel as if I'm at some boy band concert watching the girls screaming uncontrollably at the lead singer from the front row...

Just like the JS-1 camp learned, out designing the ASG-29 in all conditions and at all wing loadings is a very, very high bar to jump over cleanly.

Here is a towel.

Stop drooling all over yourselves and let's see if the V3 wins the 18 meter World Championship in Australia next January before loosing consciousness, screaming like school girls the latest, greatest boy band concert...

The V3 'might' just win the Worlds on its first go and even become a truly dominant 18m glider, but until it does, it's marketing hype. They will employ a surge of top pilots (disproportional distribution) trying to win their first worlds (see Quintus) and seal in the marketing investment. JS-1 tried this too but never made it over that pesky "ASG-29 bar." Pilots often trump a gliders true performance. Keep an eye on this.

Many, quite recently in fact, thought the JS-1 would dominate the ASG-29...but it has not. Only very recently, with the new EVO design, has the JS-1 begin to challenge the 29. And the JS1 has never won a FAI world championship against the enviable ASG29. Not once (well, if you count the last SGP World Championship,yes, but there was a valid wing loading fairness controversy at that smaller event)!

And, even if the V3 does prove a match or better, Schleicher will simply draw up a new 18 meter glider specifically intended to make the V3 obsolete, and so on... Maybe Schleicher is already well down the track on this new design already... Maybe they can simply improve the 29 with a new wing design like the JS-1 camp has with the new JS-1 Evo.

One thing is certain, the glider manufactures have you all right where they want you...buzzing wildly over almost nothing, fighting to hand over 200k checks in order to own (years from now) an unproven glider which many somehow absolutely (almost religiously) believe is sure to allow them to beat the pants off anyone flying the ASG-29 via its massive performance advantages.. Good luck with this gentleman. I for one have seen this cycle many times before in many sports.

And, if the V3 is somehow completely unstoppable in 18 meter (as you suggest), we already have so many ASG29s in the USA that we could "put our hands up" and start a "29 ONLY class" (much less expensive than buying (and waiting for) a new V3 and all with identical performance while being well proven machines!). One design 18 meter the racing! ;-). It will be 5 years, minimum, before the V3 US numbers approach a third of the 29s. And that 1/3 number is only in a perfect world for Shempp Hirth, with no hiccups or issues with the design. You V3 "bling, bling" glider guys (if it's ridiculously better) might just have to fly in open class again the Concordia! :-)

So, I'm excited to see the V3 at the convention (and the buzz surrounding it) but won't be interested until it clearly proves that it is a significantly better (or even equal) sailplane to the ASG29 and the JS1 Evo in a wide range of conditions. Until it proves its worth with contest results. And even then, rather than jumping at it immediately, I'll be looking to see the reaction from the other manufacturers.

Amused and thoroughly enjoying the "screams and shouts of glee" from the SH fan boys...

Sean


  #13  
Old February 9th 16, 05:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
smfidler
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

And technically, the GP14 is a newer, far more innovative design. It has the potential to really grow the sport.

http://www.gpgliders.com/gp-14-velo-0

Powerful electric self launch w/o the FES propeller drag, 45:1, flapped 13.5 meter. Light, small and easier to manage.

Roughly 80k complete (yes, COMPLETE) with trailer. Even better if you order at the convention. That is simply incredible pricing.

I would be even more excited to see this little puppy at the convention floor! I already know what a SH wing with a Maumer winglet looks like. ;-)

Sean
  #14  
Old February 9th 16, 06:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tim[_11_]
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 11:00:00 AM UTC-6, smfidler wrote:
And technically, the GP14 is a newer, far more innovative design. It has the potential to really grow the sport.

http://www.gpgliders.com/gp-14-velo-0

Powerful electric self launch w/o the FES propeller drag, 45:1, flapped 13.5 meter. Light, small and easier to manage.

Roughly 80k complete (yes, COMPLETE) with trailer. Even better if you order at the convention. That is simply incredible pricing.

I would be even more excited to see this little puppy at the convention floor! I already know what a SH wing with a Maumer winglet looks like. ;-)

Sean


Thanks for the props for this glider Sean! Things are shaping up nicely for this glider and, as you say, the price/performance with self-launch capability is pretty spectacular. Promotional pricing is still available for early adopters!

Unfortunately, Innovation and High Quality take longer than the oringinal very aggressive ambitions of this young glider manufacturer. Things are progressing very well at the factory and they are putting the finishing touches on the prototype for first flight very "shortly". If someone could give a call to the weather gods of southeastern Poland, everyone involved would appreciate it. While a GP 14 will not be on the floor of this convention, please stop by the GP Gliders USA booth at the convention to learn more and pickup some cool schwag.

Tim McAllister
GP Gliders USA
  #15  
Old February 9th 16, 08:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

I would be interested to know if the fuselage is the same from the V2CX series, the canopy is side hinged. is it the same Vertical fin airfoil, same horizontal? Are the wings turbinated with blow holes or zig zag tape?

I purchased a V2C waited two years to get it then 6 weeks after I got the V2C licensed and in the air the V2CX was announced, I was very unhappy. If the New Ventus is the same fuselage and tail feathers as to V2CX, then I wonder how long before the New Ventus X is announced.


On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 8:47:36 AM UTC-8, smfidler wrote:
I'm starting to feel as if I'm at some boy band concert watching the girls screaming uncontrollably at the lead singer from the front row...

Just like the JS-1 camp learned, out designing the ASG-29 in all conditions and at all wing loadings is a very, very high bar to jump over cleanly.

Here is a towel.

Stop drooling all over yourselves and let's see if the V3 wins the 18 meter World Championship in Australia next January before loosing consciousness, screaming like school girls the latest, greatest boy band concert...

The V3 'might' just win the Worlds on its first go and even become a truly dominant 18m glider, but until it does, it's marketing hype. They will employ a surge of top pilots (disproportional distribution) trying to win their first worlds (see Quintus) and seal in the marketing investment. JS-1 tried this too but never made it over that pesky "ASG-29 bar." Pilots often trump a gliders true performance. Keep an eye on this.

Many, quite recently in fact, thought the JS-1 would dominate the ASG-29....but it has not. Only very recently, with the new EVO design, has the JS-1 begin to challenge the 29. And the JS1 has never won a FAI world championship against the enviable ASG29. Not once (well, if you count the last SGP World Championship,yes, but there was a valid wing loading fairness controversy at that smaller event)!

And, even if the V3 does prove a match or better, Schleicher will simply draw up a new 18 meter glider specifically intended to make the V3 obsolete, and so on... Maybe Schleicher is already well down the track on this new design already... Maybe they can simply improve the 29 with a new wing design like the JS-1 camp has with the new JS-1 Evo.

One thing is certain, the glider manufactures have you all right where they want you...buzzing wildly over almost nothing, fighting to hand over 200k checks in order to own (years from now) an unproven glider which many somehow absolutely (almost religiously) believe is sure to allow them to beat the pants off anyone flying the ASG-29 via its massive performance advantages. Good luck with this gentleman. I for one have seen this cycle many times before in many sports.

And, if the V3 is somehow completely unstoppable in 18 meter (as you suggest), we already have so many ASG29s in the USA that we could "put our hands up" and start a "29 ONLY class" (much less expensive than buying (and waiting for) a new V3 and all with identical performance while being well proven machines!). One design 18 meter the racing! ;-). It will be 5 years, minimum, before the V3 US numbers approach a third of the 29s. And that 1/3 number is only in a perfect world for Shempp Hirth, with no hiccups or issues with the design. You V3 "bling, bling" glider guys (if it's ridiculously better) might just have to fly in open class again the Concordia! :-)

So, I'm excited to see the V3 at the convention (and the buzz surrounding it) but won't be interested until it clearly proves that it is a significantly better (or even equal) sailplane to the ASG29 and the JS1 Evo in a wide range of conditions. Until it proves its worth with contest results. And even then, rather than jumping at it immediately, I'll be looking to see the reaction from the other manufacturers.

Amused and thoroughly enjoying the "screams and shouts of glee" from the SH fan boys...

Sean

  #16  
Old February 9th 16, 09:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
K m
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 9:47:36 AM UTC-7, smfidler wrote:
I'm starting to feel as if I'm at some boy band concert watching the girls screaming uncontrollably at the lead singer from the front row...

Just like the JS-1 camp learned, out designing the ASG-29 in all conditions and at all wing loadings is a very, very high bar to jump over cleanly.

Here is a towel.

Stop drooling all over yourselves and let's see if the V3 wins the 18 meter World Championship in Australia next January before loosing consciousness, screaming like school girls the latest, greatest boy band concert...

The V3 'might' just win the Worlds on its first go and even become a truly dominant 18m glider, but until it does, it's marketing hype. They will employ a surge of top pilots (disproportional distribution) trying to win their first worlds (see Quintus) and seal in the marketing investment. JS-1 tried this too but never made it over that pesky "ASG-29 bar." Pilots often trump a gliders true performance. Keep an eye on this.

Many, quite recently in fact, thought the JS-1 would dominate the ASG-29....but it has not. Only very recently, with the new EVO design, has the JS-1 begin to challenge the 29. And the JS1 has never won a FAI world championship against the enviable ASG29. Not once (well, if you count the last SGP World Championship,yes, but there was a valid wing loading fairness controversy at that smaller event)!

And, even if the V3 does prove a match or better, Schleicher will simply draw up a new 18 meter glider specifically intended to make the V3 obsolete, and so on... Maybe Schleicher is already well down the track on this new design already... Maybe they can simply improve the 29 with a new wing design like the JS-1 camp has with the new JS-1 Evo.

One thing is certain, the glider manufactures have you all right where they want you...buzzing wildly over almost nothing, fighting to hand over 200k checks in order to own (years from now) an unproven glider which many somehow absolutely (almost religiously) believe is sure to allow them to beat the pants off anyone flying the ASG-29 via its massive performance advantages. Good luck with this gentleman. I for one have seen this cycle many times before in many sports.

And, if the V3 is somehow completely unstoppable in 18 meter (as you suggest), we already have so many ASG29s in the USA that we could "put our hands up" and start a "29 ONLY class" (much less expensive than buying (and waiting for) a new V3 and all with identical performance while being well proven machines!). One design 18 meter the racing! ;-). It will be 5 years, minimum, before the V3 US numbers approach a third of the 29s. And that 1/3 number is only in a perfect world for Shempp Hirth, with no hiccups or issues with the design. You V3 "bling, bling" glider guys (if it's ridiculously better) might just have to fly in open class again the Concordia! :-)

So, I'm excited to see the V3 at the convention (and the buzz surrounding it) but won't be interested until it clearly proves that it is a significantly better (or even equal) sailplane to the ASG29 and the JS1 Evo in a wide range of conditions. Until it proves its worth with contest results. And even then, rather than jumping at it immediately, I'll be looking to see the reaction from the other manufacturers.

Amused and thoroughly enjoying the "screams and shouts of glee" from the SH fan boys...

Sean


Sean,
I think we are all a little upset since Zane left One Direction but lets get a hold of ourselves. You are talking a bunch of straw man silliness. I didn't know "Everyone" thought the JS would dominate and you have to admit it has produced some good results at the World level. It also has the ability to fly at 21M. Perhaps SH just realized that with a Decades old planform and wing and fuse profile it was time for an update. And "Technically" the GP14 is just a shiny mock up and until it flys and proves the numbers and enters serial production I'll rely on an 80 YO company. I am a Lifelong Schleicher Man myself, (K21,20,and 27) but I will try the V3 on for size at the convention and am considering buying a slot. I promise not to jump up and down with glee.
  #17  
Old February 9th 16, 09:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 8:55:25 AM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:
I always thought the discrete breaks in dihedral and taper were primarily so the control surfaces could have straight hinge lines that didn't bind.

I suspect the other reasons are also true.

9B


And reason #4 for the discrete breaks is to provide a (sort of) practical place for the wing wheel. A smooth curve would put a lot more underside exposed to rocks and pavement necessitating a taller wheel with more drag.

GW
  #18  
Old February 9th 16, 11:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
smfidler
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

Don't get me wrong, I think the SH V3 will be a very, very good glider! I like its looks. Beautiful! Elegant.

The queston is will it be great. It should beat the 29, but will it?

Agree the JS-1 is a great glider too. But the facts are facts. Neither of these other gliders have won an 18m world championship. Of course there are numerous reasons, other than the glider itself, that may add to those stunning statistics. For example, the huge number of excellent pilots who own and fly 29s. Or the simplicity of triming, tuning and flying the 29. Or its wing loading potential and flight characteristis when at 11.7 lbs/ft., etc, etc.

Still, actually winning the worlds is an important data point. The 29 has won almost every 18 meter world championship that I can rememeber. It is an absolutely amazing glider. Exeeding it is going to be a big challenge. I for one am not quite ready to admit defeat.

Remember, I am rarely serious about this stuff. Its all for fun. I just like rattling the SH cages a little. I like being the new underdog! ;-)

I'll probaby pay for it soon enough as the V3 fly by me with 10 points better glide and 10 knots at some point this summer. He might even give me a wave as he cruises on by me in my dinosoar 29. We shall see.

Sean
  #19  
Old February 10th 16, 04:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
HGXC[_4_]
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 12:00:00 PM UTC-5, smfidler wrote:
And technically, the GP14 is a newer, far more innovative design. It has the potential to really grow the sport.

http://www.gpgliders.com/gp-14-velo-0

Powerful electric self launch w/o the FES propeller drag, 45:1, flapped 13.5 meter. Light, small and easier to manage.

Roughly 80k complete (yes, COMPLETE) with trailer. Even better if you order at the convention. That is simply incredible pricing.

I would be even more excited to see this little puppy at the convention floor! I already know what a SH wing with a Maumer winglet looks like. ;-)

Sean


Sean ...do you have some sort of hard on for SH?...I celebrate all new designs because it helps advance the R&D of gliding. Why the pale of cold water?

Dennis
  #20  
Old February 10th 16, 05:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
smfidler
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Default Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

Not cold water. Just a cool breeze of clam and patience.

I think the nemerous deposits and absolute belief in the performance predictions (every new glider makes them) is quitepremature. I think the V3 is going to run well, but will it climb in weak lift? Will it be able to carry water early in the day? Will it handle? Have they made their compromises properly and was their data analysis of 18 meter contest behavior (speeds, running, climbing percentages) accurate?

All the little things make a glider truly great (see 29). The Arcus is good, but really has had not true performance competition until last year with the 32. Unlike the Arcus which was entering a new class (flapped 20m 2 place), the V3 is entering the worlds most competitive class. The 29 is enormously strong and the JS-1 has been significantly improved (although very good from the early stages). The V3 really has to be Newley perfect to be demonstrably better than those gliders in all conditions. Is it a "me too" or is it truly innovative as they contend.

The V3 might, for example, end up being great in strong conditions and weak in others. I also question if they will build them light enough. I also worry about the cockpit size.

We shall see. I hope it's great. But yes, not too great. I would love to not have to buy a new glider to be competitive. The current 18 meter balance is actually really great between the 29, JS1 and V2. A new, unbeatable 18 meter glider could hurt the class more than it helps it, initially. I'm all for supporting the builders. But many will probably not want to buy a new glider just to be somewhat competitive in a class.

If the V3 end up being a requirement to play in 18m, yes, I'll buy one...if Scheicher des not rapidly respond. Lots of if's....

And yes, the V3 wing is very pretty. But I would buy an ugly wing if it was better! I still like th 29 right now. The 29 fuselage shape is beautiful, and it's cockpit is incredibly comfortable and functional. It's resilient, easy to fly and really strong at high wing loading. If the V3 is only equal, I would likely keep the 29 for some time.
 




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