Arlington lays some eggs

karl gruber wrote:

his was just a one

year thing, and that next year will be the biggest and best yet. AND FOR
HEAVEN'S SAKE, GET THE CIVIL AIR PATROL BACK!!!




The very best part of Arlington this year was the ABSENCE of the CAP.

Everything runs smoother without the input from this group of marching
morons.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG



I would not call them morons, but I do agree that they are not needed.
They do not have a clue how to park airplanes or where to push on them
when trying to help move them. There are enough willing pilots there
that will help with aircraft movement if a hand is needed.


Jerry

I was there Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

Weather delayed many arrivals until Friday, but there was a very good
turnout of homebuilts and factory aircraft on Friday.

Personally, I was glad the warbirds were not there in any number. I don't
want any of the gate money going to warbird owners. Let them pay their own
way like everyone else. (When they do show, don't let them dominate the
airshow.)

I noticed that the CAP was not there, but they weren't missed.

The two vendors that I talked to about business both said that business was
good.

Arlington is an excellent fly-in. It is not a crassly commercial airshow /
fair / circus / flea market like Oshkosh and Lakeland have become.

I highly recommend it to anyone interested in homebuilding and or sport
flying.


BJC

"Ken Finney" wrote in message
...
This will be a negative post, but hopefully, constructive criticism. I've
been to Oshkosh once, lots of small fly-ins, and every year for the past
eight years to the Arlington Fly-In (www.nweaa.org). Oshkosh is SO big,
it is difficult to take away a lot of lessons that are applicable to
smaller fly-ins, but I regard Arlington as the way things should be done.
Not this year. This year I spent a lot of time building up Arlington to
the non-aviation people I work with, and hopefully, several of them
attended. I hope they weren't disappointed. Below I've listed some of my
observations.

1. Where were the signs? Maybe the person that puts up the signs on the
freeway and all the intersections on the way over-slept. But on my way
in, the normal signs weren't there. I even missed a turn and had to
backtrack a mile or so.

2. I got there about 30 minutes after the gates opened on Saturday, and
there were less cars than when I normally get there 15 minutes before the
gates opened.

3, Walked through the gates, and "Where are the Warbirds???" Last year,
the Warbirds and Arlington had a public falling out, but supposedly had
made up. I guess someone forgot to tell the Warbirds. I hadn't realized
it, but the WWII "stagedoor canteen" display was put on by the warbirds
folks, and a lot of people noticed it wasn't there. (I guess it wasn't
there last year either, and I didn't notice?)

4. Noticed a lot of empty airplane spaces. Was told that they had been
occupied on Friday, but that those airplanes had already left. I don't
know if in previous years the closer spots were allocated to planes that
were going to be there for a longer period of time or what. Maybe they
back-filled those spots when the previous airplanes left. Maybe it was
just luck. But it makes a bad impression when the spaces closest to the
public are largely empty.

5. Where was the Civil Air Patrol??? Normally, there are about 180-200
Cadets in attendance, doing outstanding duty. One of the Senior members
told me that he showed up and was shocked to not find any Cadets. Someone
else told me that it was a known thing that Cadets wouldn't be there.
About 17 Cadets were there, but it was a disaster. The Arlington
organizers went nuts trying to find any warm bodies to backfill, but it
was a losing proposition. Those volunteers in attendance did a yeoman's
duty, but were over-whelmed.

6. Information was hard to obtain. Were the winds too high for a balloon
glow or not?

7. I don't know the attendance figures (it did pick up quite a bit on
Saturday afternoon), but several exhibitors said their foot traffic was
down by 50% from last year.

8. The exhibition tent was HOT, and the tables weren't being manned with
any regularity. This isn't the organizers fault; exhibitors, if you are
going to spend the money for space, make sure someone is there the whole
time! If you can't tag team and have to take a break, leave a sign that
says when you'll be back, not "Back in 15 minutes", because the shoppers
won't know when the 15 minutes started. This applies to the exhibitors
outside the tent, too.

9. Not everything was negative. The food was great as always (but a
little more expensive, I think). The shuttles were running all the time.
The antique tractor people were there with a good display, as always.
Good airshow. Good runway movies, which leads to #10 below.

10. The runway movie on Saturday night was "One Six Right". Good movie,
also a good movie for boring the kids to sleep! One thing that was
stressed over and over again in the movie was the need for aviation people
to involve non-aviation people. Aviation people talk to each other about
how great aviation is, but their outreach to others is very poor. This is
biggest problem I saw this year. There were radio commercials, but the
url they gave to get more information was long, I couldn't remember it.
The newspaper "things to do this weekend" didn't list the Fly-In. (I have
a pet peeve against the term "fly-in" itself; why would a non-aviation
person be interested in a fly-in? I much prefer the terms "aviation
fair", "aviation celebration", "air fair", "air show", etc.) If I was
going for the first time, I don't know how long it would have taken me to
find it; the first time I went (1998?), there were lots of signs, it would
have been impossible NOT to find it.

Arlington is planning on building a convention center, which will cause
the destruction of many hangers (they will be replaced), and I think this
contributed to "taking their eyes off the ball" and letting the fly-in
proceed on momentum. In the past years, Arlington has gotten better with
each year; not this year. A fly-in (sic) is an organic thing, and it
needs constant care and nurturing or it will decline. I hope this was
just a one year thing, and that next year will be the biggest and best
yet. AND FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, GET THE CIVIL AIR PATROL BACK!!!

"Byron Covey" wrote in message
...
I was there Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

Weather delayed many arrivals until Friday, but there was a very good
turnout of homebuilts and factory aircraft on Friday.

Personally, I was glad the warbirds were not there in any number. I don't
want any of the gate money going to warbird owners. Let them pay their
own way like everyone else. (When they do show, don't let them dominate
the airshow.)

I noticed that the CAP was not there, but they weren't missed.

The two vendors that I talked to about business both said that business
was good.

Arlington is an excellent fly-in. It is not a crassly commercial airshow
/ fair / circus / flea market like Oshkosh and Lakeland have become.

I highly recommend it to anyone interested in homebuilding and or sport
flying.

snip

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Arlington, as "the third
largest aviation event in the US" does have identity issues. Is it going to
stay a "fly-in" (a term which I've previously said isn't the best to attract
"non-insiders") or will it become more of the "airshow/fair/circus/flea
market" that does attract "non-insiders" and expose them to aviation, but at
the same time discourages many "insiders".

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:21:21 GMT, "Ken Finney"
wrote:

This will be a negative post, but hopefully, constructive criticism.

My turn! :-)

1. Where were the signs? Maybe the person that puts up the signs on the
freeway and all the intersections on the way over-slept. But on my way in,
the normal signs weren't there. I even missed a turn and had to backtrack a
mile or so.

I noticed the lack of signage, too, though I know my way there well enough that
I didn't need them. My real clue something was amiss was at the "short cut" off
Smokey Point Blvd... there's usually a sign that tries to direct folks down the
road a piece to keep from driving through that residential area. Wasn't there
this year.

I understand the posting about this particular ball being dropped...can happen
to any organization. But it's a ball that could have been "picked up" in a half
hour by one guy in a car driving around putting up signs. Their not being up on
Wednesday is understandable; their not being up by Sunday is a bit perplexing.

2. I got there about 30 minutes after the gates opened on Saturday, and
there were less cars than when I normally get there 15 minutes before the
gates opened.

I flew my plane up on Wednesday, cadged a ride home, then drove up Friday and
Saturday. Caught a ride back to the airport on Sunday, then flew the plane
home.

On the days I drove, I also felt the parking lot was a bit emptier than normal.
I seemed to get less "flowage" past my airplane than in past years. Most of the
time, I'd hoist a half dozen kids into the cockpit during the course of an
afternoon. Not this time, though I was beset by a pair of giggling newlyweds on
Friday noon. First time I ever saw a bow tie on a Hawaiian shirt :-)

Still, I did meet up with several folks interested in Fly Babies. Handed out a
batch of CD-ROMs. I was in a less-optimal location this year, which might
explain the lower traffic.

3, Walked through the gates, and "Where are the Warbirds???" Last year,
the Warbirds and Arlington had a public falling out, but supposedly had made
up. I guess someone forgot to tell the Warbirds. I hadn't realized it, but
the WWII "stagedoor canteen" display was put on by the warbirds folks, and a
lot of people noticed it wasn't there. (I guess it wasn't there last year
either, and I didn't notice?)

It's a situation that is a bit perplexing, and apparently still somewhat
controversial... I tend to wonder if the decision has anything to do with rumors
about high turnovers among the officers prior to last year's Fly-In.

Speaking for myself, I enjoy watching the warbirds fly, but I wouldn't make my
go/no-go decision based on their presence. I'd heard the warbirders wanted
their gas and hotel expenses paid for by the fly-in, though I'm VERY skeptical
about the posted claim that the bill would have been over a million dollars.

But...we have to remember that this show gets two kinds of attendees: Pilots,
and the general public. The warbirds *are* a big draw for the non-flying
public, especially with major Air Force, Army, and Navy air bases (and two Naval
bases) within driving range of Arlington. I met a young married Air Force
enlisted couple that I knew at last year's fly in, and the first thing they
asked is 'Where are the warbirds?"

It really boils down to the economics: The fly-in obviously can't afford to
compensate the warbirders more than their presence brings in. The couple I met
last year didn't come this year. Next year, without the warbirds, there'll be
more people that'll decide not to come because they're just not that interested.
The true impact of the breach between Arlington and the warbirders won't be seen
for several years yet.

Still. Geeze, if I owned a P-51 or something, I'd want to show it off. I'd
take it to the Fly-In and just park the sucker for the weekend and watch the
crowds ogle it. I've gotta fly it *anyway*, why not just bring it to the local
fly-in? Sit in a lawn chair and listen for folks oohhh and ahhh over it.

The Flying Heritage Collection is a good alternative, but few of the planes make
it to the main show. Certainly one can catch a shuttle to visit the collection,
but it's very difficult on the one-day visit most non-aviation types take.
Taking the shuttle takes time, and most of them probably want to be back at the
main display area in time for the air show.

4. Noticed a lot of empty airplane spaces. Was told that they had been
occupied on Friday, but that those airplanes had already left.

In the past, when I flew up on Wednesday, I always scarfed up the choice corner
slot on the "tube and fabric" row, on the north end by the main pedestrian
walkway. A Canadian Fly Baby owner, who usually arrived on Thursday, typically
was able to grab the spot next to me, and we usually could still fit some more
Fly Babies in with us until Friday noon.

This time, though, the end of my choice row was already filled when I got there.
I parked next to the Canadian Fly Baby with two spaces open next to me, in which
I hoped to put a couple of more Fly Babies.

I never lured any more Fly Babies to us...but then, those two open spots were
never filled, anyway. That had *never* happened before; the row always was
filled by Friday noon. What's more, this "homebuilt" row had two later-model
Cessnas parked in it!

Typically, Saturday seems to be the busiest day, but the homebuilt parking this
year never did seem to fill up.

... I don't know
if in previous years the closer spots were allocated to planes that were
going to be there for a longer period of time or what. Maybe they
back-filled those spots when the previous airplanes left. Maybe it was
just luck. But it makes a bad impression when the spaces closest to the
public are largely empty.

The RV area seemed a really sparsely attended, but they did set up a separate
corral for the Blackjack squadron across the main taxiway...this took out about
two dozen RVs from the traditional area. I also noticed what appeared to be
MORE homebuilts parked on the far side of the new taxiway (I had some mobility
problems this weekend and didn't make it over there). If so, it's curious that
they were parked so far from the main display area. Ken's right about the
negative impression given with empty parking spaces, and this year seemed worse
than normal.

The public entry to Arlington is fantastic, it couldn't be better. The main
parking lot is right at the end of the ultralight area, and the main entry is
directly adjacent to the ultralight display area. When people drive in to the
fly-in, they walk to the gate with ultralights and gyros buzzing overhead, and
enter directly into the hustle and bustle of the ultralight vendor area.

But as they walked further into the grounds, though...Sheesh. There was an "LSA
Mall" set up directly across from the ultralight grounds. It had eight or so
planes scattered through it, but the area allocated for it was so large it had a
ghost-town feel to it.

Directly behind the LSA Mall was the RV parking area...which, again, had a lot
of open gaps.

And while I may be committing heresy here, I have to say it: I don't think the
general public finds the RV tiedown area all that interesting. *I* know the
difference between an RV-3 and an RV-9, but to the non-homebuilt buff, they all
look about the same. Some sit on their tails, some on nosewheels, some are a
bit longer or wider. But to the non-aficionado, it's the same basic
configuration, the same basic look, just a few dozen planes that don't look all
that much different from the ones parked at the local airport. Think Joe
Sixpack can tell an RV-6A from a Grumman TR-2?

Arlington should swap the RV and Canard parking areas. Let the first homebuilts
visible to the public be the exotic looking ones...and make the next rows the
places for the homebuilt biplanes, amphibians, Avid Flyers, and other
less-common types. Let's show the general public the full range of homebuilt
aircraft from the moment they arrive.

Put the RVs right next to the main vendor area. That'll make it the first
parking area that the *pilot* visitor taxis by. They're the people the design
appeals to the most, why not make RVs the first homebuilts they see? Tuck it up
next to the vendor area, and move Vans' booth adjacent to it.

And if they're going to do the "LSA Mall" again, put it with the vendors rather
than leaving a set of planes sitting alone in a wide-open space.

Speaking about wide-open spaces, Sunday is pretty sad. It's certainly not the
Fly-In's fault, but the vast majority of aircraft owners seem to clear out on
Saturday after the airshow or on Sunday morning. The row I was parked in had
~20-25 planes on Saturday, but by the time I drove up on Sunday, there were just
three other planes left in the row. Only one was a homebuilt.

And as Ken mentioned, the spaces closest to the public seem the worst hit. I
always feel for the folks at the booth buying tickets as I walk in on Sunday.
There's really nothing much left, other than the airshow itself.

I'm not sure what the Fly-In could do to combat this. It would be nice to
allocate the choice row-end spots to folks who are going to stay through Sunday,
but this would be very awkward to implement.

My own primary irritant happened on Sunday. My Fly Baby needs new tires, and I
was checking out the Fly Market and whatnot on Friday and Saturday and finally
decided to order from one of the vendors that was offering free shipping. I
figured there was no rush...I'd order on Sunday, when the crowd was down.

As the air show finished about 2:55 Sunday, I went to the tent to try place the
order. The vendor was gone. Not sitting with the tent flaps down, not packing
up to leave. Just bare tables.

One thing that seemed to work nice was the low-power radio station. I watched
the airshow on Friday from a buddy's campsite, and it was a lot nicer running
the narration over the radio in the rather than content with echoing speakers.
Where my plane was parked, the closest speaker was far enough away that it could
be listened to when desired, or easily tuned out for conversation.

On the other hand, though, a couple of buddies had the misfortune of having
their classic scratch-built homebuilts parked directly *under* a loudspeaker. It
was impossible to try to talk to folks about the aircraft with the speaker
roaring overhead.

There's really not much reason *every* PA statement has to go to *every*
speaker. The antiques, classics, and homebuilts owners are there to socialize
and discuss their aircraft, and there's no reason to force routine non-airshow
narration into every conversation. Let folks listen to it over the low-power
station, if they want. The general public, again, will be mostly congregating
around the commercial area. Run the speakers there. Otherwise, shut the
speakers off in aircraft parking areas, except for important announcements or
the narration for the air show itself.

On the positive side, I felt the volunteers did an excellent job. The
auto-parking area was well staffed and efficient, the grounds were pretty much
litter-free, the Ramp control folks did an excellent job, the trash cans were
regularly emptied, the trams kept running, and the porta-potties were clean.
What else can one ask for? :-)

Ron Wanttaja

Ron Wanttaja wrote:

On the days I drove, I also felt the parking lot was a bit emptier than normal.
I seemed to get less "flowage" past my airplane than in past years. Most of the
time, I'd hoist a half dozen kids into the cockpit during the course of an
afternoon. Not this time, though I was beset by a pair of giggling newlyweds on
Friday noon. First time I ever saw a bow tie on a Hawaiian shirt :-)

Giggling? Surely you exaggerate.

- J.O.-

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:19:35 GMT, John Ousterhout
wrote:

Ron Wanttaja wrote:

On the days I drove, I also felt the parking lot was a bit emptier than normal.
I seemed to get less "flowage" past my airplane than in past years. Most of the
time, I'd hoist a half dozen kids into the cockpit during the course of an
afternoon. Not this time, though I was beset by a pair of giggling newlyweds on
Friday noon. First time I ever saw a bow tie on a Hawaiian shirt :-)

Giggling? Surely you exaggerate.

Moi? :-)

Ron Wanttaja

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
Speaking for myself, I enjoy watching the warbirds fly, but I wouldn't make my
go/no-go decision based on their presence. I'd heard the warbirders wanted
their gas and hotel expenses paid for by the fly-in, though I'm VERY skeptical
about the posted claim that the bill would have been over a million dollars.


I'm an idiot... FIVE figures... not seven... Sorry about that typo.

Still. Geeze, if I owned a P-51 or something, I'd want to show it off. I'd
take it to the Fly-In and just park the sucker for the weekend and watch the
crowds ogle it. I've gotta fly it *anyway*, why not just bring it to the local
fly-in? Sit in a lawn chair and listen for folks oohhh and ahhh over it.


One would think that is the case. But in all the years I've been going
to Arlington, I never once, not one single time, was able to shoot the
bull with one of the warbird owners there. They park and disappear,
seemingly not wanting to be bothered by the masses.


I never lured any more Fly Babies to us...but then, those two open spots were
never filled, anyway. That had *never* happened before; the row always was
filled by Friday noon. What's more, this "homebuilt" row had two later-model
Cessnas parked in it!


The problem here is two fold:

1. People arriving in dissimilar aircraft wishing to camp together.
2. Aircraft parking doesn't have people that really recognize the
difference in airplanes.

Directly behind the LSA Mall was the RV parking area...which, again, had a lot
of open gaps.


I think this was mainly due to no-shows. The idea was to have a lineup
of LSA's for prospective buyers to 'test fit' one right after another
without being bothered by salespeople. Thereafter, they can go to the
booths in the vendor area of the airplane(s) they wanted more info
about.

In excecution, didn't quite work out this year....


As the air show finished about 2:55 Sunday, I went to the tent to try place the
order. The vendor was gone. Not sitting with the tent flaps down, not packing
up to leave. Just bare tables.


Agreed. Vendors, including the EAA, were gone WAY too fast. Teardown
really shouldn't start until 4pm, an hour after the airshow. But after
a week there, many are hot to trot to get home.

wrote

Agreed. Vendors, including the EAA, were gone WAY too fast. Teardown
really shouldn't start until 4pm, an hour after the airshow. But after
a week there, many are hot to trot to get home.

Easy solution, to that. Have a $500 dollar deposit on the spot, which will
be given out by an airshow representative, at their booth, at 4PM, if it is
still intact and manned.

The same thing needs to be done at OSH.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

wrote

Agreed. Vendors, including the EAA, were gone WAY too fast. Teardown
really shouldn't start until 4pm, an hour after the airshow. But after
a week there, many are hot to trot to get home.

Easy solution, to that. Have a $500 dollar deposit on the spot, which
will
be given out by an airshow representative, at their booth, at 4PM, if it
is
still intact and manned.

The same thing needs to be done at OSH.


In my one and only (so far) trip to OSH (2004), I couldn't believe that most
of the food places shut down for the day during the airshow. So, after the
airshow, here are a bunch of hungry and thirsty people with time to kill
before the Theatre in the Woods, and the few food places still open were
shutting down as fast as they could.

On 14 Jul 2006 11:40:30 -0700, wrote:


Ron Wanttaja wrote:
Speaking for myself, I enjoy watching the warbirds fly, but I wouldn't make my
go/no-go decision based on their presence. I'd heard the warbirders wanted
their gas and hotel expenses paid for by the fly-in, though I'm VERY skeptical
about the posted claim that the bill would have been over a million dollars.


I'm an idiot... FIVE figures... not seven... Sorry about that typo.

You must be an estimator at Boeing. :-)

Still. Geeze, if I owned a P-51 or something, I'd want to show it off. I'd
take it to the Fly-In and just park the sucker for the weekend and watch the
crowds ogle it. I've gotta fly it *anyway*, why not just bring it to the local
fly-in? Sit in a lawn chair and listen for folks oohhh and ahhh over it.

One would think that is the case. But in all the years I've been going
to Arlington, I never once, not one single time, was able to shoot the
bull with one of the warbird owners there. They park and disappear,
seemingly not wanting to be bothered by the masses.

I guess rich people *are* different from us, after all.

I never lured any more Fly Babies to us...but then, those two open spots were
never filled, anyway. That had *never* happened before; the row always was
filled by Friday noon. What's more, this "homebuilt" row had two later-model
Cessnas parked in it!

The problem here is two fold:

1. People arriving in dissimilar aircraft wishing to camp together.
2. Aircraft parking doesn't have people that really recognize the
difference in airplanes.

Cough, they can't tell a Cessna 172 from a homebuilt?

I'm suspecting #1 was true in the case of the 172. But still, on a busy
weekend, that might mean a guy with a homebuilt has to go park in Jerry
Springer's penalty box behind the Blackjack corral. Hardly seems fair...if the
172 wants to camp with his homebuilt, let them both go to the spamcan row to
park.

I think this was mainly due to no-shows. The idea was to have a lineup
of LSA's for prospective buyers to 'test fit' one right after another
without being bothered by salespeople. Thereafter, they can go to the
booths in the vendor area of the airplane(s) they wanted more info
about.

In excecution, didn't quite work out this year....

Live and learn, I guess. Ain'cha lucky we're all giving you advice for next
year? :-)

Ron Wanttaja