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Narrow Runways



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 11th 05, 05:33 AM
Jay Beckman
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"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you comfortable?


Phoenix Regional (A39) @ 4000 x 50

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ


  #12  
Old May 11th 05, 05:40 AM
houstondan
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Casey Wilson wrote:
snip.

and touchdown... THERE WAS THE GOD
AWFULEST RACKET I HAD EVER HEARD!


Thirty-two years later, I can still hear Bob laughing when I'm on

final
and I get the center-line more than a wheel-span off to either side.


now, that was a great story, well told. thanks

my narrow runway is about 3" wide. or so it seemed to me.

where i got my ppl there are 2 runways, 17/35 r/l and the one on the
west side is big. like bravo big. concrete that goes on, as chris rea
says, "forever" and is very wide. too much crosswind for your i52? not
a problem, just bring her in crosswise.

then there was the runway that we terrified students were allowed: "the
little dirt raod". that's what we called it and by golly, that's just
what it looks like from 1000'. maybe half as long as the real runway
and rather than that pretty greyish/whitish concrete, this path was
paved with asphalt. or whatever's left after asphalt dies. all black
and rough except for the volunteer plants expressing thru the ample
cracks. on paper, it's 50' but i'm suspicious. if ray charles really
wanted to learn to fly, he could have learned take-offs there. the many
potholes formed a kind of brail that you learned to read and about
halfway down there's a huge speed bump that tells you it's time to
by-god rotate or brake like mad. mostly, we would launch off it.

as you tried to line up on the little dirt road you of course had to
especially worry about not wandering into the real runway which is
exactly 17" west or, to the east, the water-runway which they use for
float plane operations and which is also exactly 17" to the other side
and they keep it stocked with sharks.

a big-shot thousands-of-hours pilot explained to me that they allowed
the students to use the little dirt road only because they didn't want
our dirty little carcases interfering with important operations.

i felt better then.

((G))


dan

  #13  
Old May 11th 05, 05:43 AM
tony roberts
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I never landed on an 18ft runway - don;t really know it I would want to
- I think not.
What was your shortest?
Again, I'm very conservative about this.
Mine to date is 2400 ft with trees.

My worst airport to date is in a very narrow valley where the runway is
longer and wider than my minimums, but the surrounding mountains
encroach enough that you cannot fly a standard pattern.

If I'm being honest, I'm not a great fan of extreme runways (nor is my
insurer

Tony
C-GICE


In article ,
"Dave Stadt" wrote:

18 feet. I'd rather deal with narrow than wide which are usually lacking in
visual clues.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are

you
comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience

yesterday
with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday

in
my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for

most
of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned

a
3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.

Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was

lower
than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.

On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that

3'
tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the

sagebrush
with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.

With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant

forehead
wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and rollout,
then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the cell

phone
and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)

So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds

on
takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the

weather
along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225 miles

before
the next unplanned stop.

After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages

to
a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows, you
can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the

convective
stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's weather in a
C-172 or Cherokee...












--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE
  #14  
Old May 11th 05, 06:43 AM
Peter Duniho
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"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you comfortable?


Well, let's see. There are several 30' and under wide runways in the Puget
Sound area, almost all of which I use on a semi-regular basis, and have
landed on at least once. The narrowest is 24'. It doesn't seem
uncomfortable to me at all. I may have even landed on narrower somewhere,
but if so I don't recall.

In my seaplane, probably the landings with the least margin for lateral
error have been in canals in Florida. I don't actually know how wide they
are, but if you stay in the center, you're fine. As with the runway you
describe, it's not so much the width of the landing surface, as it is the
width of the area the wings must clear. My plane has a 40' wingspan, so the
canals must be wider than that.

In any case, 10' on each side sounds like a LOT of room to me. However, I
will readily grant that comfort depends a lot on pilot experience and
confidence. Even so, I'll point out that when my primary instructor got fed
up with me landing all over the place on Boeing Field's 200' wide runway, he
fixed that by taking me over to Port Orchard with their 28' wide runway and
demonstrating that, when necessary, I had no trouble staying on the
centerline. I was no longer permitted to claim "but it's too hard" back at
Boeing.

Pete


  #15  
Old May 11th 05, 07:39 AM
Ray
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What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?


http://www.airnav.com/airport/L53

Lodi Airpark near Sacramento, CA has an 1875x22ft. runway. If I remember
right there's a ditch on the side too - leaving little room for error.

Also, Harris Ranch (also in CA) has a 30ft. runway which can be really
challenging because in summer afternoons the wind tends to gust straight
across the runway.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/3O8

- Ray


  #16  
Old May 11th 05, 08:55 AM
Bob Noel
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In article ,
"Kyle Boatright" wrote:

What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
comfortable?


IIRC Tew-Mac in MA was 26' wide, and it was fine.

My CFII was tired of me landing left of centerline at KBED (150' wide)
so he took me to Tew-Mac. He proved to me that I can land on the
centerline and I proved to him that I can land on the centerline when I
want to. :-)

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

  #17  
Old May 11th 05, 11:22 AM
Matt Whiting
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Kyle Boatright wrote:
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...


I think 35' was the narrowest. My comfort level depends on the wind,
etc. In calm conditions, I'd be comfortable with 10'. In a stiff cross
wind, I like at least 50'.


We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday in
my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for most
of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned a
3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.

Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was lower
than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.

On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that 3'
tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the sagebrush
with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.


Another good reason to fly a Cessna. :-) We have the same problem with
snow windrows here in the winter.


Matt
  #18  
Old May 11th 05, 01:00 PM
Jay Honeck
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What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you comfortable?


For three years I flew out of little Sylvania Field (C89), in Sturtevant,
WI.

2272 feet long, 33 feet wide, paved. (With a parallel grass strip that
saved many a young pilot's hash...mine included.)

Precision was rewarded.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #19  
Old May 11th 05, 01:02 PM
Jay Honeck
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I think 35' was the narrowest. My comfort level depends on the wind, etc.
In calm conditions, I'd be comfortable with 10'.


Methinks you exaggerate a tad?

:-)

What's the wheelbase of your plane?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #20  
Old May 11th 05, 02:35 PM
Dave Butler
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Kyle Boatright wrote:
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...


Liberty, NC, 2A5 Runway 2/20
Dimensions: 3800 x 40 ft. / 1158 x 12 m
http://www.airnav.com/airport/2A5

The Mooney's wingspan is 36' 1".

There are no noticable obstructions along the sides of the runway, so I didn't
have any heartburn about taxiing / takeoff / landing. It definitely is a good
place to observe the optical effects of a narrow runway during short final, though.

My home airport has 150 ft wide runways.

Dave
 




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