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#31
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Navy Wings?
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:40:08 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote: There was a lot of emotional argument about quality, but it really turns out that the job is so rote that a brand-new grad can be pretty good at it. The only thing missing is the intimidation factor that is the basic stock-in-trade of the military flight instructor. The three tool of the IP: fear, sarcasm and ridicule. Wow, the Navy never taught US that in IUT (Instructor Under Training) school!!!!! :-) The must have had a "Screamer" subspecialty course, though, because there were a few of those. I wonder, though, if the AF method might be a remnant of the old days when cavalry officers were some of the first aviators. That method is somewhat common in "old school" equitation instructors. ;-) Bill Kambic Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão |
#33
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Navy Wings?
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:41:39 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote: I was never a believer in the "Screamer" method--I always found it much more effective to mutter softly, just above the level of audibility regarding the student's skill, intellect, breeding, parentage, education, probable pending demise, and potential for languishing the next ten years or so in a missile silo in N. Dakota. Ah, the "Fulton Sheen Gambit": Speak very softly forcing them to pay attention lest they miss some part of the "discussion"!! :-) When you could see the tears running down the front edge of the oxygen mask and hear the quiet sobbing in the headset you knew you were at the top of your game. Indeed. Bill Kambic Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão |
#34
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Navy Wings?
SERGRAD = "SElected and Retained GRADuate" (I think).
"SERGRADed" = Plowed back into the Training Command right after wings to train more studs who then get immediately SERGRADed and train yet more studs, etc. Seriously, during the early 1970s the Navy became quite concerned about the unintended consequences of SERGRADing so many folks. These concerns ranged from pilot quality degradation (like W. Edwards Deming's "worker training worker" effect), the leper colony taint of long Training Command tenure, and bass-ackward career planning challenges that totally baffled Aviation JO detailers in BUPERS. -- Mike Kanze "Press '1' if you speak English, press '2' to disconnect until you can." - Anonymous "Bob Moore" wrote in message 6.128... qui si parla Campagnolo wrote Mike Kanze wrote: My entire class was SERGRADed. When I got my wings along with about 15 others in Beeville(first 2 weeks of June, 1974) we were the first nuggets to get fleet orders for a long time(maybe a year or more?) 2 F-4 seats( I got one-other Mike Price), some A-7 seats, couple of A-6..more than a few A-4..Not enough nuggets to fill all the rquirments but they wouldn't let any Sergrads take the excess. What's SERGRADed? Bob Moore Pensacola Class 12-58 |
#35
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Navy Wings?
There was a lot of emotional argument about quality, but it really turns out that the job is so rote that a brand-new grad can be pretty good at it. The only thing missing is the intimidation factor that is the basic stock-in-trade of the military flight instructor. The three tool of the IP: fear, sarcasm and ridicule. Also missing, a lick of credibility. The "Been there, done that" factor. R / John |
#36
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Navy Wings?
wrote...
Ah, the "Fulton Sheen Gambit": Speak very softly forcing them to pay attention lest they miss some part of the "discussion"!! :-) Sorry... He swished his cape a couple times too many for me. He may have been a powerful TV and book presence, but as Bishop of the Rochester, NY diocese (late 60s) he was an abysmal failure. Just another example of 'TV is better than reality"... |
#37
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Navy Wings?
"Mike Kanze" wrote...
Seriously, during the early 1970s the Navy became quite concerned about the unintended consequences of SERGRADing so many folks. These concerns ranged from pilot quality degradation (like W. Edwards Deming's "worker training worker" effect), the leper colony taint of long Training Command tenure, and bass-ackward career planning challenges that totally baffled Aviation JO detailers in BUPERS. That must be why they re-instituted the "super-SERGRAD" program in the LATE 70s, where they had guarantees for follow-on assignments... The Navy's "concern" evaporated as soon as they figured out they FUBARed the Training Command manning yet again! How many '5-year cycles' do they need to learn anything at BUPERS?!? |
#38
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Navy Wings?
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:54:31 -0800, "John Weiss"
jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet wrote: wrote... Ah, the "Fulton Sheen Gambit": Speak very softly forcing them to pay attention lest they miss some part of the "discussion"!! :-) Sorry... He swished his cape a couple times too many for me. He may have been a powerful TV and book presence, but as Bishop of the Rochester, NY diocese (late 60s) he was an abysmal failure. Just another example of 'TV is better than reality"... I was commenting on his ability as an orator. Bill Kambic Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão |
#39
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Navy Wings?
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:57:52 -0800, "John Weiss"
jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet wrote: "Mike Kanze" wrote... Seriously, during the early 1970s the Navy became quite concerned about the unintended consequences of SERGRADing so many folks. These concerns ranged from pilot quality degradation (like W. Edwards Deming's "worker training worker" effect), the leper colony taint of long Training Command tenure, and bass-ackward career planning challenges that totally baffled Aviation JO detailers in BUPERS. That must be why they re-instituted the "super-SERGRAD" program in the LATE 70s, where they had guarantees for follow-on assignments... The Navy's "concern" evaporated as soon as they figured out they FUBARed the Training Command manning yet again! How many '5-year cycles' do they need to learn anything at BUPERS?!? BUPERS is like the Bourbon Kings of France: they forget nothing and learn nothing. And it's not just in detailing. There was a period where I worked in NLSO Corpus prosecuting court martials and doing admin discharge boards. It was very frustrating, because there is a principle in Military Law that the government must follow its own rules. I was talking to a CDR at the Bureau about the application of a rule and how the Bureau was disregarding the BUPERS Manual. He then informed me, in no uncertain terms, that since the Bureau wrote the Manual they did not have to follow it. As luck would have it that very morning I'd been handed my ass, sliced and diced, by a Miltary Judge over just this issue. For the first time, and last time, in my Naval Career I lost my temper with a senior officer. In informed him, by chapter and verse, that he was ****ed up as Hogan's Goat and I was really tired of being reamed by a judge on the record because stooges like himself thought they walked on water. It went downhill from there. After I hung up on him I went down to the COs office and turned myself in. He'd already had a conference with the MJ (who said the chewing out was nothing personal nor was it a negative reflection on the job I did as a prosecutor, but as the Trial Counsel I represented the Government and he had to put the Government's failings on the record). He made me repeat my characterizations of the CDR and his boss, suggested that I was probably well advised to watch my tongue, and said he'd take care of it. I never heard anything more. I had many other dealings with the Bureau over the years, both a personal and professional level. Seldom was I impressed. Bill Kambic Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão |
#40
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Navy Wings?
We hired a well-regarded retired 3 star for a BRAC defense of our TRACOM
base. We were discussing the issue of pilot training numbers and the impact on the Navy's ability to produce aviators. USAF manages its pilot flow moderately well. They were transitioning a base for additional training. When asked why the Navy seemed unable to manage pilot training (either too few or too many) the 3-star triumphantly announced "The Navy manages year groups, not pilots" as if that was somehow a good thing. OBTW, my year group opportunity for command was about 40%. Three years later there were more commands than aviators in the year group. Some management. R / John wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:57:52 -0800, "John Weiss" jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet wrote: "Mike Kanze" wrote... Seriously, during the early 1970s the Navy became quite concerned about the unintended consequences of SERGRADing so many folks. These concerns ranged from pilot quality degradation (like W. Edwards Deming's "worker training worker" effect), the leper colony taint of long Training Command tenure, and bass-ackward career planning challenges that totally baffled Aviation JO detailers in BUPERS. That must be why they re-instituted the "super-SERGRAD" program in the LATE 70s, where they had guarantees for follow-on assignments... The Navy's "concern" evaporated as soon as they figured out they FUBARed the Training Command manning yet again! How many '5-year cycles' do they need to learn anything at BUPERS?!? BUPERS is like the Bourbon Kings of France: they forget nothing and learn nothing. And it's not just in detailing. There was a period where I worked in NLSO Corpus prosecuting court martials and doing admin discharge boards. It was very frustrating, because there is a principle in Military Law that the government must follow its own rules. I was talking to a CDR at the Bureau about the application of a rule and how the Bureau was disregarding the BUPERS Manual. He then informed me, in no uncertain terms, that since the Bureau wrote the Manual they did not have to follow it. As luck would have it that very morning I'd been handed my ass, sliced and diced, by a Miltary Judge over just this issue. For the first time, and last time, in my Naval Career I lost my temper with a senior officer. In informed him, by chapter and verse, that he was ****ed up as Hogan's Goat and I was really tired of being reamed by a judge on the record because stooges like himself thought they walked on water. It went downhill from there. After I hung up on him I went down to the COs office and turned myself in. He'd already had a conference with the MJ (who said the chewing out was nothing personal nor was it a negative reflection on the job I did as a prosecutor, but as the Trial Counsel I represented the Government and he had to put the Government's failings on the record). He made me repeat my characterizations of the CDR and his boss, suggested that I was probably well advised to watch my tongue, and said he'd take care of it. I never heard anything more. I had many other dealings with the Bureau over the years, both a personal and professional level. Seldom was I impressed. Bill Kambic Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão |
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