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Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically whenglider kites?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 9th 14, 11:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically whenglider kites?

This topic was buried in a drifting degenerate thread. I'm wondering if anyone knows more about the tow hook innovation mentioned below by UH.

On Saturday, February 8, 2014 9:31:13 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:

Why does the pilot need to pull the release if the glider kites? Why is the release for a deadly tow position not fully automatic? Is a simple purely mechanical, totally foolproof and 100% automatic release not possible? As the guy in the glider, I would be fine with a 100% automatic release. If I kite, release me immediately.


On Sunday, February 9, 2014 5:05:52 PM UTC-5, wrote:

There was a design and prototype of a release like this created many years ago and published, I believe, in Soaring magazine. I know if no one that has adopted this which makes it fairly clear that this is not perceived as a huge problem.

  #2  
Old February 10th 14, 02:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
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Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically whenglider kites?

The solution is simpler than that - it's called "low tow" - used in more civilized parts of the world.

Mike
  #3  
Old February 10th 14, 03:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically whenglider kites?

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 8:58:56 PM UTC-5, Mike the Strike wrote:
The solution is simpler than that - it's called "low tow" - used in more civilized parts of the world.


How do you do a low tow when both glider and tug are still in ground effect at launch?
  #4  
Old February 10th 14, 11:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Don Johnstone[_4_]
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Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically when glider kites?

At 22:27 09 February 2014, son_of_flubber wrote:
This topic was buried in a drifting degenerate thread. I'm wondering if
an=
yone knows more about the tow hook innovation mentioned below by UH.

On Saturday, February 8, 2014 9:31:13 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
=20
Why does the pilot need to pull the release if the glider kites? Why is

t=
he release for a deadly tow position not fully automatic? Is a simple
purel=
y mechanical, totally foolproof and 100% automatic release not possible?
As=
the guy in the glider, I would be fine with a 100% automatic release. If
I=
kite, release me immediately.
=20


On Sunday, February 9, 2014 5:05:52 PM UTC-5,
wrote:=
=20
=20
There was a design and prototype of a release like this created many

year=
s ago and published, I believe, in Soaring magazine. I know if no one

that
=
has adopted this which makes it fairly clear that this is not perceived

as
=
a huge problem.

With any automatic system you need a fail safe mode. What would the fail
safe mode be for an automatic release device?
One of those areas where the medicine is potentially worse than the
disease.

  #5  
Old February 10th 14, 02:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically whenglider kites?

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 8:58:56 PM UTC-5, Mike the Strike wrote:
The solution is simpler than that - it's called "low tow" - used in more civilized parts of the world. Mike


And in the US. Our club in New York uses low tow as standard ops procedure. I'm not sure who else in US does.
UH
  #6  
Old February 10th 14, 02:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically whenglider kites?

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 8:47:20 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, February 9, 2014 8:58:56 PM UTC-5, Mike the Strike wrote:

The solution is simpler than that - it's called "low tow" - used in more civilized parts of the world.




How do you do a low tow when both glider and tug are still in ground effect at launch?


If you are both in low tow you aren't kiting. Then, when the tow plane starts climbing, you ease down to the low tow position. No big deal.

Apparently standard ops in Australia - and some other "civilized" countries..

However, since kiting upsets are pretty much limited to older, low wing loading gliders, the problem is somewhat limited. In the US, my guess is that it is a threat from mainly 1-26s and 2-33s. My solution: careful briefing of 1-26 pilots, and chop up all the remaining 2-33s.

Kirk
66
  #7  
Old February 10th 14, 03:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Posts: 1,550
Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically whenglider kites?

On Monday, February 10, 2014 8:49:58 AM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:

However, since kiting upsets are pretty much limited to older, low wing loading gliders, the problem is somewhat limited. In the US, my guess is that it is a threat from mainly 1-26s and 2-33s. My solution: careful briefing of 1-26 pilots, and chop up all the remaining 2-33s.


Are you saying that high performance gliders are incapable of kiting, or that the pilot of a high performance glider will never pull back on the stick at launch in ground effect?

Here is a kiting fatality with a Grob 103 Twin http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...11X11267&key=2

Both pilots were experienced and current. Excerpt from the NTSB narrative:
"The pilot of the tow plane reported 5,078 hours of total flight experience, 1,245 hours of which were in the Cessna 305A. The (tow ed.) pilot reported 80 hours of flight experience in the 90 days prior to the accident, and 25 hours in the 30 days prior; all in the Cessna 305A. On October 5, 1998, the pilot performed 13 glider tows prior to the accident flight.

The glider pilot held a commercial pilot's certificate with ratings for airplane single engine land, glider, and instrument airplane. His most recent FAA second class medical certificate was issued June 26, 1997. The pilot reported 440 hours of flight experience on that date. A review of the glider pilot's logbook revealed 859 hours of total flight experience, of which 121 hours were in gliders."

  #8  
Old February 10th 14, 06:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Bick (1DB)
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Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically whenglider kites?

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 5:58:56 PM UTC-8, Mike the Strike wrote:
The solution is simpler than that - it's called "low tow" - used in more civilized parts of the world.



Mike


I haven't tried low tow with my cg hook since it is up in the main wheel well. How does that (low tow) work with cg hook configurations? Any problems, or just chafing of the underbelly? Obviously, the tow rope has to extend forward on either the left or right side of the fuselage. Don't see flying two with constant yaw to prevent chafing. What about release? Any unintended consequences? I can maybe see the weak link rubbing up against the wheel well doors.

Also, our club has a PW-6 with chin hook. POH says - "Flying under the towing airplane downwash is not recommended since the towing cable rubs the fuselage front part."

Not sure low tow is the be-all, end-all answer.

Eric Bick -
  #9  
Old February 10th 14, 07:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically whenglider kites?

On Monday, February 10, 2014 12:47:04 PM UTC-5, Eric Bick (1DB) wrote:
On Sunday, February 9, 2014 5:58:56 PM UTC-8, Mike the Strike wrote: The solution is simpler than that - it's called "low tow" - used in more civilized parts of the world. Mike I haven't tried low tow with my cg hook since it is up in the main wheel well. How does that (low tow) work with cg hook configurations? Any problems, or just chafing of the underbelly? Obviously, the tow rope has to extend forward on either the left or right side of the fuselage. Don't see flying two with constant yaw to prevent chafing. What about release? Any unintended consequences? I can maybe see the weak link rubbing up against the wheel well doors. Also, our club has a PW-6 with chin hook. POH says - "Flying under the towing airplane downwash is not recommended since the towing cable rubs the fuselage front part." Not sure low tow is the be-all, end-all answer. Eric Bick -


How much damage do you think the surface of the tow rope will do if it touches the belly?
My experience is absolutely none. We do use an adaptor on our ropes to convert from big (Schweizer) rings to Tost. It is about 4 ft long so there is no metal contact.
UH
  #10  
Old February 10th 14, 07:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Don Johnstone[_4_]
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Posts: 398
Default Does anyone use a tug tow hook that releases automatically when glider kites?

At 17:47 10 February 2014, Eric Bick 1DB wrote:

What about release? Any
unintended=
consequences? I can maybe see the weak link rubbing up against the wheel
w=
ell doors.

Also, our club has a PW-6 with chin hook. POH says - "Flying under the
towi=
ng airplane downwash is not recommended since the towing cable rubs the
fus=
elage front part."

Not sure low tow is the be-all, end-all answer.

Eric Bick


I think you will find the recommended procedure is to move up to high tow
for release, ask the Aussies, they are the experts on this. I do use low
tow but always move to high tow for the release.


 




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