A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Soaring Contest and Coronavirus



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old April 19th 20, 07:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 10:39:58 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Freedom of choice and a population based epidemiological response to a pandemic are, unfortunately, and temporarily, mutually exclusive.


Funny, I don't see anything like that in the Constitution. I do see things like Freedom of Speech, Freedom to Assemble, Freedom to practice religion of choice (or not) and other things under the first ten Amendments, collectively known as the "Bill OF Rights."


Not a lawyer and very open to be corrected by one, but...
Maybe you didn't quite get to the 10th amendment then? Somewhat indirect in it's application to freedom of assembly... but essentially undisputed in the opinion as to the legality of the states pass quarantine laws (and federal quarantine powers were enacted during the Spanish Flu pandemic) as long as they are not applied with prejudice to any one religion, etc. Scalia firmly defended much of this, in case you were thinking it was a Democratic issue item. Republicans used to be staunch defenders states rights, hard to tell what their position is now on a variety of topics...
Anyhoo, a very basic, honest look into some of these very simple constitutional concepts would lead to pretty clear answers. Currently there are lot's of legal scholars weighing in on the real and difficult constitutional issues the virus has brought to the fore. The right to limit assembly by states under emergency powers is not one of them. Some are challenging the idea that the current crisis does not rise to the level of emergency. I am not one of them, but I'm just a simple internet user and glider pilot.
  #32  
Old April 20th 20, 02:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Haeh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 257
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

Taiwan is so far doing very well.

Being next door to the world's top novel virus incubator, speaking the same language and having long experience of having to apply close scrutiny to official pronouncements from across the strait, Taiwan maintains preparedness that other countries would do well to emulate.

Taiwan maintains a stock of PPE and manufacturing capability at a time when other countries such as Canada have to wrangle orders and charter PPE flights from China.

Each citizen has a ration of three masks per week @ ~17¢ each which they can pick up at local stores.

Contact tracing is assiduous and those quarantined are supported with visits, grocery deliveries and even a salary.

The rest of the folks put on a mask and go to school or work.

Hopefully when PPE is widely available, the rest of us can get our noses back on the grindstone.

Just to repeat, the chief role of masks is preventing spread from asymptomatic carriers.

Closer to home, two Alberta meat processing plants have exploded with 300 and 100 cases in the last few days. The spouse of one of the infected workers unfortunately works in a care home.
  #33  
Old April 20th 20, 06:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 5:19:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I don't think it will be safe to hold a contest or meet this summer because I don't believe the COVID19 testing will be either available in large quantities or accurate enough.

Tom


Well, Tom, I guess you should not go to any contests. I also suggest you quit trying to force your opinion on everybody else. Up until recently, I enjoyed having something like "freedom of choice." I miss it.

Note that today is the 245th anniversary of the start of the American Revolution with the battles at Lexington and Concord.


Sounds like YOU are the one trying to force their opinions on others.
  #34  
Old April 20th 20, 06:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 7:45:24 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Tom,

Sorry, but I did not take your comments as second guessing our decision. We wanted to explain to the soaring community why we made the decision to proceed together with the precautions we took. For those contests that are not cancelled now, maybe it will help those organizers in their preparations. I agree with the vast majority of contest organizers that this virus will make it almost impossible to hold a contest this year. There are a multitude of smart people working on drug treatments to combat this virus. Testing confidence and availability in very large quantities is not here yet. There maybe some drug regimens that hold promise, but until more data comes in, I do not believe a silver bullet will be forthcoming in the next few months. The Contest Committee held off removing sanction authority for the last couple of contests because they are a ways off. All we can do is hunker down, review our flights from past adventures, and get ready when the gate opens. We are still flying at Seminole-Lake with restrictions just like some clubs in the US are doing. However, if you are not flying, I would recommend taking a flight with an instructor first. For those of you up north, your winter season just got a little longer. Hope every one's family is safe.


Oh, I am flying alright - I flew today and yesterday. Thank God for motorgliders! No, I thought your decision to hold the contest was the right one AT THAT TIME.

Tom
  #35  
Old April 20th 20, 03:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard Pfiffner[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 319
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 3:22:27 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Jim Lee came down with presumed case on his drive home, per report from his wife.


From my understanding this case finally turned out to be positive, please correct me if I am wrong. The test has a 50% capacity of being wrong positive and negative.


We can assume that he has recovered as he flew a 845 km task yesterday.

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....=2020&c=US&sc=


Richard
  #36  
Old April 20th 20, 05:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,463
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 9:49:44 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 8:22:19 AM UTC-7, Bob Whelan wrote:
Does that freedom of choice extend to choosing what risks you expose
others to?


Apologies for contributing to thread drift, etc., but that's an interesting
(to me, anyway) philosophic question. And an important one. The United States
exists because of people who considered philosophical questions important,
with contributors ranging from Founding Fathers to grunt militia and
(ultimately) nameless/faceless individuals (in the historical sense) who voted
in favor of accepting the choice to begin a *national* experiment of a
form-of-government and nation based upon the rule of law, with the highest law
of the land being the - proposed - Constitution which they were being asked to
consider and vote upon.

History - and common sense - give the short-form answer to the above question
as, "YES!" Consider the simple act of driving one's vehicle. Unavoidably
you're exposing others to the risks inherent to your
driving-style/age/sense-of-personal-responsibility (e.g. drinking)/etc. And
then there's soaring, with the reality of landouts, etc...

In principle, the "freedom of choice" question is no different than
considering "Kung Flu questions."

For evidence principle is important in the history of the USA, one need look
no further than the Declaration of Independence (essentially a statement based
entirely on principle) and the Constitution (the fundamental legal
codification of said principles).

This nation's "proper final recourse" for civilly disagreeing with others who
hold differing views on specific issues of principle is - for better or worse
- civil lawsuits. Hugely imperfect, but there you go. So - and such - is life.

Flame suit on...

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


The most recent data suggest that people are contagious 3 days before symptoms. So it is a little like driving your car not knowing if the brakes work. You are exposing others to a risk you yourself do not comprehend.

I like freedom of choice too, but the answers are not so simple.


I actually have a gliding story about brakes. I was landing my Nimbus 4T, all 1131 pounds empty, with a quartering headwind of about 12 knots, for only the second time. Mt previous two gliders were AS birds with the brake at the end of the spoiler pull. The AS gliders have a handle on the stick which is the trim. SH birds have the brake on the stick. As I was rolling out I didn't seem to be getting much braking no matter how hard of squeezed the stick brake or the spoilers, the quartering head wind had turned the big Nimbus to head directly at what we called skid row (6, 1-26's tied down).. It was too late to ground loop it and the gentleman working on his glider at skid row, just gave me a friendly wave, apparently not noticing the terror in my eyes. Fortunately a very young and spry Garret Willat tucked under the wing of the moving Nimbus grabbed ahold of the vertical and got the bird stopped about two feet from making a dent throughout skid row. And I am sorry gentleman, a gliding themed post seems out of place on RAS now, please forgive my natural tendencies.
  #37  
Old May 7th 20, 01:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bojack J4
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

Well Mark, can my icu nurse then choose not to treat you when you come in gasping for air?

Very selfish and short sighted comments by you.
  #38  
Old May 7th 20, 02:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 774
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-6, Bojack J4 wrote:
Well Mark, can my icu nurse then choose not to treat you when you come in gasping for air?

Very selfish and short sighted comments by you.


Does your ICU nurse refuse to treat motorcyclists who don't wear a helmet? Does she refuse treatment to drunks who play with fireworks? Does a hospital (publicly funded) have the right to refuse treatment to the taxpayer who contributed to its existence?

But if I protest the over reach of the Government restricting my Constitutional rights, like freedom to assemble, practice (a) religion or just leave my house to visit a (non-essential) business, you think I am personally carrying the plague. I disagree, especially since I live in a rural community with virtually no cases of COVID-19. But a hell of a lot of future bankruptcies, loss of livelihoods, increasing domestic abuse, and financial hardship on some of my favorite people. You know, the charming waitresses who used to laugh with me over morning coffee, the guys at the welding shop who used to sell me steel for my projects and all the other folks who made our lives happy and productive.

It's going to be tragic when we see the suicide rates skyrocket as the social pressure causes vulnerable people to just give up.

I notice that a lot of bureaucrats are not working, but are still drawing full pay. I guess I am not that important. I am self employed, don't qualify for all of the handouts designed to make us more dependent on Government charity and I am resigned to the probability that the egregious plunge into debt to prop up the economy will result in rampant inflation due to the unprecedented increase in the money supply.

Yes, I practice "social distancing," wear a face covering when appropriate and minimize my travel. But I consider myself an "essential business," simply because I like to eat food, and I have to do something to be able to afford to do so.

Send me a ****load of money so I can become one of you.

  #39  
Old May 7th 20, 03:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 351
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

Very well said Markm!!! I agree wholeheartedly!
  #40  
Old May 7th 20, 04:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Soaring Contest and Coronavirus

On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:37:15 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-6, Bojack J4 wrote:
Well Mark, can my icu nurse then choose not to treat you when you come in gasping for air?

Very selfish and short sighted comments by you.


Does your ICU nurse refuse to treat motorcyclists who don't wear a helmet? Does she refuse treatment to drunks who play with fireworks? Does a hospital (publicly funded) have the right to refuse treatment to the taxpayer who contributed to its existence?

But if I protest the over reach of the Government restricting my Constitutional rights, like freedom to assemble, practice (a) religion or just leave my house to visit a (non-essential) business, you think I am personally carrying the plague. I disagree, especially since I live in a rural community with virtually no cases of COVID-19. But a hell of a lot of future bankruptcies, loss of livelihoods, increasing domestic abuse, and financial hardship on some of my favorite people. You know, the charming waitresses who used to laugh with me over morning coffee, the guys at the welding shop who used to sell me steel for my projects and all the other folks who made our lives happy and productive.

It's going to be tragic when we see the suicide rates skyrocket as the social pressure causes vulnerable people to just give up.

I notice that a lot of bureaucrats are not working, but are still drawing full pay. I guess I am not that important. I am self employed, don't qualify for all of the handouts designed to make us more dependent on Government charity and I am resigned to the probability that the egregious plunge into debt to prop up the economy will result in rampant inflation due to the unprecedented increase in the money supply.

Yes, I practice "social distancing," wear a face covering when appropriate and minimize my travel. But I consider myself an "essential business," simply because I like to eat food, and I have to do something to be able to afford to do so.

Send me a ****load of money so I can become one of you.


I agree with your comment Mark. Inflation and national debt are a huge concern.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus impacting activities? [email protected] Soaring 110 March 24th 20 03:31 PM
Coronavirus ProfJ Soaring 26 March 9th 20 09:23 PM
Region 3 Soaring Contest at Harris Hill Soaring 2019 Joan Taylor Soaring 0 May 29th 19 04:40 PM
Are OLC and Contest Soaring really that different? Sean Fidler Soaring 28 March 3rd 12 12:08 AM
US Region 7 Soaring Contest Paul Remde Soaring 0 March 23rd 05 03:18 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.