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Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 27th 20, 06:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 9:10:01 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
There are 3 important lessons I can share which apply to many situations:
1- keep your margins, don’t let them erode overtime.
2- the 99% rule eventually wins. You can perform the same thing successfully 99 times, eventually it will fail.
3- Always have a plan B and even C. My plan B and C were the golf course and the lake. I walked and measured that golf course multiple times over the years and concluded that if it is empty I should be able to land there with minimum to no damage. If it is not I can divert to the water In the last minute. Admittedly it was still a very intense experience.

Ramy


That lake is 1,600 ft deep. So glad you are okay!! Anyone know what the usual damage is a for a water landing, perhaps Hank? How long will a glider float, anyone know? If landing on a body of water would it help to have the wheel brake locked?
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  #12  
Old July 27th 20, 07:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.
  #13  
Old July 27th 20, 09:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

On 7/26/20 10:03 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:27 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935


Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson.

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane


This land out really highlights the need for a good short game when flying XC. If you had a two stroke, you wouldn't have been penalized. Good drive to the green! Stay safe everyone.


I think he scored a birdie didn't he?

Better than a two-stroke handicap, with an electric he could have just
flipped a switch, turned a knob, and ended up in an attic. Worked great
for the guy in Connecticut. And that Kawa guy in Italy.
  #14  
Old July 27th 20, 10:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

On Monday, 27 July 2020 07:33:50 UTC+1, Charles Longley wrote:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.


All the recommendations I've heard, including in for instance Finland and Sweden, say wheel down

It helps break the surface, and otherwise the belly gets grabbed and the glider can get sucked in and turn over.
  #15  
Old July 27th 20, 12:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
RR
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Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

As one who has done it, they float well. How long I dont know, as I made it a point to get it to shore asap. There is a lot of air trapped in the wings, I expect it would be a long time before it sank.

In my case, I was flying again in under 24hrs, the only electronics I lost was the one thing that was supposed to be waterproof, my ELT. Aircraft damage was limited to one cracked gear door.

I had heard a briefing on landing in the water, vents shut, gear down, away from shore(dont know what is hidden under the water), wings level, slow as posable, and flaps, spoilers closed.

The gear down part is the counter intuitive part, but this little kitchen demonstration will show why. Hold a spoon so it is just dangling from the handle between you fingertips. Try to hold it so the spoon is down, but can pivot in the convex direction. Turn on the tap and just touch the bottom of the spoon to the stream. It will suck into the stream. Gear down will help avoid this.

Also most gliders have the gear well sealed so the water will not enter from there.

In my case in the cocpit I had about 1.5 inches of freeboard at the cocpit sides when I was in it, but watter was comming in from the nose hook, and comming in the fusalage from the rudder. I got out and side stroked and towed the glider to shore. It towed very easily because it was such a clean shape.

As for safety, if the water was not dangerously cold, you are probably safe in the water, but you risk damaging you electronics. Note, in the 99% category, you dont often have a chance of drowning in a land based Landout.

These days, in my ash-31 I would be very reluctant, but in a composite "gravity glider" it is way better than the trees...

  #16  
Old July 27th 20, 01:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

In my case, I was flying again in under 24hrs

Perhaps a W&B just to make sure there was not extra water somewhere in the structure?
  #17  
Old July 27th 20, 01:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 8:31:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
In my case, I was flying again in under 24hrs


Perhaps a W&B just to make sure there was not extra water somewhere in the structure?


Some wag offered "maybe you should leave the tape off...", which he did.

I watched the take off... the volume of water wasn't great, but it was quite impressive.

T8
  #18  
Old July 27th 20, 01:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

kinsell wrote on 7/27/2020 1:51 AM:
On 7/26/20 10:03 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:27 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets
a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or
whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson.

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem
very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane


This land out really highlights the need for a good short game when flying XC.
If you had a two stroke, you wouldn't have been penalized.* Good drive to the
green!* Stay safe everyone.


I think he scored a birdie didn't he?

Better than a two-stroke handicap, with an electric he could have just flipped a
switch, turned a knob, and ended up in an attic.* Worked great for the guy in
Connecticut.* And that Kawa guy in Italy.


And 100s of uneventful saves by electric gliders we never hear about, because they
were successful. The two incidents you mention were caused by pilot errors, not
electric glider failures.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

  #19  
Old July 27th 20, 02:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,580
Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

Charles Longley wrote on 7/26/2020 11:33 PM:
I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

I'm not sure the advice is in the ASW20 handbook, as I haven't read one for 30
years or so, but it is in my ASH26E handbook: water landings should be done with
the gear extended to reduce the tendency of the glider to dive into the water, and
to absorb the shock of hitting the bottom of the lake in shallow water.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #20  
Old July 27th 20, 02:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 915
Default Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 8:54:44 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
kinsell wrote on 7/27/2020 1:51 AM:
On 7/26/20 10:03 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:27 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets
a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or
whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson..

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem
very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane

This land out really highlights the need for a good short game when flying XC.
If you had a two stroke, you wouldn't have been penalized.* Good drive to the
green!* Stay safe everyone.


I think he scored a birdie didn't he?

Better than a two-stroke handicap, with an electric he could have just flipped a
switch, turned a knob, and ended up in an attic.* Worked great for the guy in
Connecticut.* And that Kawa guy in Italy.


And 100s of uneventful saves by electric gliders we never hear about, because they
were successful. The two incidents you mention were caused by pilot errors, not
electric glider failures.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


Starting an electric motor now counts as a "save"? :-)

T8
 




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