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  #31  
Old December 23rd 04, 10:31 AM
Roger
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:31:08 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Matt Whiting wrote:

What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
lanterns and stoves?



As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman Fuel"
until the mid-70s.


We used "White Gas" in our "Camp Stove" when I was a kid in the 40s.
It's been around for a longggg time.

The camp stove, had one of those pressurized (you pump it up) fuel
tanks. You poured in the white gas, pumped it up, primed the burners,
lit the fire to preheat the vaporizers and hoped it was hot enough to
run when you turned on the fuel.

I can still remember crawling out of the tent and smelling breakfast.
Damn near froze in August camping near Thunder bay Ontario.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.





Matt


  #32  
Old December 23rd 04, 04:48 PM
Matt Whiting
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Roy Smith wrote:
In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:


G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Matt Whiting wrote:


What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
lanterns and stoves?


As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman
Fuel"
until the mid-70s.


I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.


Matt



The Coleman web site claims they've been making gas lanterns for over
100 years. Is Coleman fuel anything other than gasoline without the
additives added to motor fuel?


I don't know for sure, but what I've found searching aroung suggests it
is a little different. However, I honestly don't know what the chemical
distinction is between gasoline and naptha. What I've read says that
Coleman fuel is naptha and it said it was not the same as unleaded
gasoline, but it sounds like it is right next two it off the
fractionating tower.


Matt

  #33  
Old December 23rd 04, 05:38 PM
Jay Somerset
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:08:34 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Matt Whiting wrote:

What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
lanterns and stoves?


As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman
Fuel"
until the mid-70s.


I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.



The old name for fuel for "Coleman" lamps was "naphtha" It was more highly
refined than gasoline, and had no coloration added. It smelled distincly
different from automotive gasoline. It was the only acceptable fuel for the
pressurized mantle-type lanterns back then, and it was usually strained
through an extremely fine metal seive lined with a cloth filter to ensure
than no particulate matter got into the burner pipes and valve.

Naphtha was used in these types of lanterns going back to the 1930's if not
earlier. The earliest Coleman lanterns even had mica windows, rather than a
glass surround.

Matt


The Coleman web site claims they've been making gas lanterns for over
100 years. Is Coleman fuel anything other than gasoline without the
additives added to motor fuel?


  #34  
Old December 23rd 04, 05:43 PM
Jay Somerset
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On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:31:29 -0500, Roger
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:31:08 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Matt Whiting wrote:

What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
lanterns and stoves?


As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman Fuel"
until the mid-70s.


We used "White Gas" in our "Camp Stove" when I was a kid in the 40s.
It's been around for a longggg time.

The camp stove, had one of those pressurized (you pump it up) fuel
tanks. You poured in the white gas, pumped it up, primed the burners,
lit the fire to preheat the vaporizers and hoped it was hot enough to
run when you turned on the fuel.


"White gas" was used more for outboard motors which could not tolerate the
tetraethyl lead additives. It would wrok on stoves, but was bad for the
hand-pump-pressurized mantle-type lanterns, as it did not burn cleanly
enough to avoid contaminating the mantles. Naptha (naphtha) was what we
always used in "Coleman" lamps. Slightly more highly refined than white gas
(higher boiling point fraction) which vaporized better and burned
cleaner/hotter.


I can still remember crawling out of the tent and smelling breakfast.
Damn near froze in August camping near Thunder bay Ontario.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.





Matt


  #35  
Old January 2nd 05, 03:02 AM
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I have heard that you can store avgas for extended periods -
and I have a way of finding out. I have a trail bike that
has been in storage for a long time (over 10 years). I always
ran it on avgas, and it still has some in the tank. When
I can find a battery for it I'll try starting it and let
you know what happens (was planning to get it going again
anyway).

David Johnson


UPDATE:

Found a battery for the bike (a Honda Trail 90, vintage 1979) and
tried it out today. It started with no more difficulty than I would
expect of an engine that had been sitting a long time. It was a
bit cranky till it warmed up, then ran fine - not unexpected. This
was with the gas in the tank - for who knows how long. I did drain
an ounce or so from the carb (using the sump drain), and it came
out perfectly clean. I inspected the tank with a flashlight, and it
is also perfectly clean - just like new. The gas is a reddish color -
probably 80 octane. The only items needing attention are the foam
air filter element and rubber tank gasket (both disintegrating). I
took the filter out pending obtaining a replacement.

The last time this bike was used on the road was 1982 (still has
the '82 sticker on it). I do remember getting it running again
about 10 years ago, but never did anything with it other than
ride it around my property a couple of times.

So it looks to me as though avgas will keep almost indefinitely -
as I had read somewhere.

David Johnson

  #36  
Old January 3rd 05, 05:00 PM
#1ACGuy
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Good to know it doesn't gum up with age-----Alex
wrote in message
oups.com...


I have heard that you can store avgas for extended periods -
and I have a way of finding out. I have a trail bike that
has been in storage for a long time (over 10 years). I always
ran it on avgas, and it still has some in the tank. When
I can find a battery for it I'll try starting it and let
you know what happens (was planning to get it going again
anyway).

David Johnson


UPDATE:

Found a battery for the bike (a Honda Trail 90, vintage 1979) and
tried it out today. It started with no more difficulty than I would
expect of an engine that had been sitting a long time. It was a
bit cranky till it warmed up, then ran fine - not unexpected. This
was with the gas in the tank - for who knows how long. I did drain
an ounce or so from the carb (using the sump drain), and it came
out perfectly clean. I inspected the tank with a flashlight, and it
is also perfectly clean - just like new. The gas is a reddish color -
probably 80 octane. The only items needing attention are the foam
air filter element and rubber tank gasket (both disintegrating). I
took the filter out pending obtaining a replacement.

The last time this bike was used on the road was 1982 (still has
the '82 sticker on it). I do remember getting it running again
about 10 years ago, but never did anything with it other than
ride it around my property a couple of times.

So it looks to me as though avgas will keep almost indefinitely -
as I had read somewhere.

David Johnson



  #37  
Old January 3rd 05, 09:23 PM
nrp
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The term "white gas" as used in southern US might have come from
standard oil's White Crown Gas which was of premium octane.

I think of white gas as Coleman fuel. It needs to be only a
hydrocarbon with no requirement for octane ratings etc. Maybe it would
work in small low compression engines, at least others say it will.

I had a mostly empty stored can of Coleman fuel go royally sour after
several years. Allowing the surface to be exposed to air might have
caused it. The same thing probably applies to autofuel, but maybe to a
lesser degree. Colder temps will probably also improve any fuel's
storage life.

I agree autofuel stinks, although I understand that is due to the MTBE
components allowed for octane enhancement. Ethanol laced fuels (not
permitted of course for aircraft use) will go bad in just a few months.

 




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