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Who does flight plans?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 3rd 05, 05:24 AM
Michael 182
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Default Who does flight plans?

I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country? Most of my planning is of
the fuel stop, or occasionally detour for weather variety - but it is rare
for me to include more than one or two waypoints in my "plan", and I almost
never file an airway, even when I file ifr. Maybe it's because I live in the
west. A typical flight plan will be Longmont - Amarillo - Austin, or if the
winds are good, Longmont - Austin. What do others do?

Michael


  #2  
Old June 3rd 05, 05:40 AM
George Patterson
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Michael 182 wrote:
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country?


I plan each flight on my computer. I tend to navigate by LORAN. Given that I'm
in an area with perhaps more areas of protected airspace than any other in the
States, my plans tend to have a fair number of waypoints at this end of the
flight. This is especially true if I'm headed towards the DC ADIZ. I tend to
swag the winds because, by the time I can get a decent forecast from the FAA,
it's usually too late to crank up the computer and add them to the plan -- I'm
heading out the door.

Of course, if I've made a particular flight before, I already have it planned.
All I have to do is bring it up and check it with a current chart to make sure
there's nothing new in my way.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.
  #3  
Old June 3rd 05, 05:45 AM
tony roberts
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Here in Canada if we fly more than 25 miles from our home base we must
be on a flight plan or flight itinerary. I have no problem at all with
that.
i live and fly in the mountains - and if I go down I really do want
people to know exactly what my route was. Downside is that it is
difficult (but not impossible) to change plans halfway through the
flight - it can be done - we just have to make contact via radio and
advise of the change

Tony
C-GICE.

In article ,
"Michael 182" wrote:

I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country? Most of my planning is of
the fuel stop, or occasionally detour for weather variety - but it is rare
for me to include more than one or two waypoints in my "plan", and I almost
never file an airway, even when I file ifr. Maybe it's because I live in the
west. A typical flight plan will be Longmont - Amarillo - Austin, or if the
winds are good, Longmont - Austin. What do others do?

Michael





--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE
  #4  
Old June 3rd 05, 05:47 AM
A Lieberman
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On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:24:29 -0600, Michael 182 wrote:

I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country?


I always do a flight plan. No, not with the ole EB6, but with DUATS or
AOPA flight planner. I always print out my briefings to take with me. I
still always call FSS before departure.

I do this so the person at my destination will know my arrival time. For
those flights that I don't have flight following or that I filed IFR, at
least they know to start worrying if I am overdue by more then 20 minutes.

I generally pad 10 minutes to my expected ETA for ATC deviations around JAN
approach and weather considerations.

Since getting my IA rating, it's either IFR or no ATC contact. I have not
filed a VFR flight plan pretty much since my initial training.

So far, my IFR flights, I have filed direct even though I file /A on the
flight plan.

The majority of my cross country trips are greater then 100 NM which I do
at minimum 2 times a month. Anything shorter, I find that my commute to
the airport, flight and then airport to my destination negates the time it
takes to drive from point A to B anyway.

Allen
  #5  
Old June 3rd 05, 06:01 AM
Michael 182
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"A Lieberman" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:24:29 -0600, Michael 182 wrote:

I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight
plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country?


I always do a flight plan. No, not with the ole EB6, but with DUATS or
AOPA flight planner. I always print out my briefings to take with me. I
still always call FSS before departure.


Yeah - I always call as well. The briefings have changed my route, advised
me on TFRs or given me cause not to go at all (usually ice) many times. I
hate to think we may lose this service to computers someday. I really
appreciate good briefers.


I do this so the person at my destination will know my arrival time. For
those flights that I don't have flight following or that I filed IFR, at
least they know to start worrying if I am overdue by more then 20 minutes.


Since getting my IA rating, it's either IFR or no ATC contact. I have not
filed a VFR flight plan pretty much since my initial training.


If I'm IFR I'm talking and, 99% of the time, on radar, so if something comes
up ATC will know about it. If I'm VFR I'm usually listening to the iPod. No
flight plans - hope the ELT is good and loud if something happens
(called the Aron Ralston approach)

So far, my IFR flights, I have filed direct even though I file /A on the
flight plan.


I thought you had to have a navigation aid in your suffix to file direct -
like /G or /R. Aren't you setting yourself up for a problem filing /A and
direct?


The majority of my cross country trips are greater then 100 NM which I do
at minimum 2 times a month. Anything shorter, I find that my commute to
the airport, flight and then airport to my destination negates the time it
takes to drive from point A to B anyway.


Unless you are flying Longmont to Colorado Springs and looking down on the
I-25 parking lot...

Michael


Allen



  #6  
Old June 3rd 05, 06:52 AM
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Still do the plans the old fashioned way.
Ruler, map, piece of paper and my E6B.
Most waypoints are about 10NM apart.
The nice thing is that it works every time and that without power or
batteries.
And it is still fun to do.

-Kees

  #7  
Old June 3rd 05, 07:32 AM
Peter Duniho
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"Michael 182" wrote in message
...
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight
plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? [...]


I'm well past 100 hours. For me, it just depends, but it appears I always
plan with more detail than you do.

I always plan at least a basic route for total mileage, adjust my cruise
speed for the winds to get total time and thus fuel burn. I don't correct
individual legs for winds; I just look at the worst-case scenario and use
that as my cruise speed for the entire trip. Winds aloft can vary so much
from the forecast anyway that it's pointless to try to include them with any
greater detail than that. I always carry at least an hour of fuel in
reserve, and on shorter flights (two or three hours or so) it can be more
than that.

It's MUCH more important to then cross-check your expected fuel burn and ETA
with what transpires during the flight, since the winds can change at any
time anyway. The initial planning is just so you have some idea of whether
the flight can be done with the fuel on board, and generally how long you
can expect to be in the airplane.

I find it funny that your question uses the phrase "with winds and all", as
if the winds are the most important element of the flight plan. They are,
IMHO, the least important during planning (though they become very important
during flight). The "and all" includes a bunch of much more important
things.

For routes that I'm not familiar with, I do more detailed planning. This
includes, of course, noting airspaces, landmarks for waypoints and general
navigation purposes, terrain for inclusion in cruise altitude
decision-making, possible emergency landing sites, etc. The "this is what
will happen" goal is to find an efficient route from Point A to Point B,
while either avoiding or anticipating any impediments along the way. The
"this is what might happen" goal is to identify various things that
shouldn't happen, but which might anyway, and develop strategies for dealing
with them. Knowing where one might land if the headwind is greater than
expected, adjusting the route for friendlier emergency landing sites (if
possible), identifying alternate airports in case of things like the
original destination being closed, equipment trouble, emergency bathroom
break, etc. (yes, there's overlap in those various criteria...but it's not
always the same overlap).

One thing I'm surprised at is that you include only one or two waypoints in
your plan. Perhaps you are flying the same routes over and over again, in
which case I can understand that. But I only neglect waypoints like that
for routes where I am completely familiar with the terrain along and around
the entire route. For any route I haven't flown repeatedly and recently, I
like to know some good waypoints that I'll pass every 10 to 15 minutes.
Note that this is also true for the familiar routes, it's just that I've got
those waypoints memorized in that case (and I know roughly what time during
the flight I should expect to see them).

I have a reasonably reliable Loran in my airplane, and so I admit I do slack
a bit on the groundspeed calculations while enroute. However, I need to
have the waypoints for backup in case the Loran goes south, and even with
the Loran, on longer flights I am still double-checking my groundspeed with
waypoints every 30-60 minutes. In addition, the Loran is much better with
groundspeed than it is with absolute position, and I'm not always flying a
route for which the Loran has waypoints along my route in its database
anyway. So I need the waypoints for off-airway navigation (both "where" and
"when").

Note that having a Loran (or even IFR-certified GPS) doesn't obviate the
need for proper planning. Even if the equipment was 100% reliable, you
still need to actually inspect the route for the details along the way, to
avoid obstacles and so that you can double-check your navigation equipment
(even the GPS, which is supposed to tell you when it's lying, can
theoretically go wrong without you knowing...you don't want to be the first
pilot that happens to, and not know it when it's happening ). But on top
of all that, you need a backup plan in case you lose your nav equipment for
any reason (electronics get fried, electrical failure, bird hits your
antenna, whatever).

I readily admit to not filling out a full "flight log", and definitely
abbreviating my planning from what's typically required for FAA testing.
But much of the same detail needs to go into the actual planning, IMHO, even
if it doesn't get written down.

As for the computerized planning, well...probably if I didn't spend so much
time with computers already, I'd be all over that. But my life already
revolves around them as it is. Much of my enjoyment of flying comes from
the somewhat anachronistic aspects of it, and I actually like spreading the
charts out on the floor and measuring distances with my plotter. It does
take longer, that's for sure. But for me, it's all part of the whole
experience.

Pete


  #8  
Old June 3rd 05, 07:52 AM
Greg Farris
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Many rental companies REQUIRE you to file a flight plan if yoiu're going more
than 50nm from their base. This is a bit of an inconvenience, as it cuts your
liberty to fly where you want. I am all for flight plans, flight following,
continuous radio contact and business-like conduct for most flights, even VFR
- but when the weather's beautiful, and you're only going 100nm or so, of
route that you know like the back of your hand, it's a bit of a shame not to
be able to take your time, check something out, show someone who's never been
up before something special - even land somewhere else if you feel like it.
Under these conditions, the only use for a flight plan is to assist SAR.
Flight following is just as good - and probably better. This is a kink in the
rental system today.

G Faris

  #9  
Old June 3rd 05, 08:08 AM
Michael 182
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Michael 182" wrote in message
...
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight
plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? [...]


I'm well past 100 hours. For me, it just depends, but it appears I always
plan with more detail than you do.

I always plan at least a basic route for total mileage, adjust my cruise
speed for the winds to get total time and thus fuel burn. snip I always
carry at least an hour of fuel in reserve, and on shorter flights (two or
three hours or so) it can be more than that.


I agree, I just don't actively plan for this. I usually take off with a full
tank. I have a Shadin to measure fuel flow, which I know from experience is
very accurate. Since I also have a Garmin 430 I know, pretty accutaely, my
time to destination. I have a backup Pilot III in the glove box if I need
it. If all of this fails (a very low probability - never happened in over
1200 hours in this plane), I can tune in VORs, figure out where I am, and
find an airport.

It's MUCH more important to then cross-check your expected fuel burn and
ETA with what transpires during the flight, since the winds can change at
any time anyway.


I never go below 1.5 hours in reserve. All of this can easily be handled in
flight, with very minimal ground planning.

For routes that I'm not familiar with, I do more detailed planning. This
includes, of course, noting airspaces, landmarks for waypoints and general
navigation purposes, terrain for inclusion in cruise altitude
decision-making, possible emergency landing sites, etc.


Come on, you plan for emergency landing spots on a long cross country? No
way - you might generally say "I'm not flying across the Rockies in IMC, but
beyond that, how can you plan for emergency landing spots? In any case, I'm
generally just buying IFR charts - I have no idea of the terrain beyond some
general altitude information.

The "this is what will happen" goal is to find an efficient route from
Point A to Point B, while either avoiding or anticipating any impediments
along the way. The "this is what might happen" goal is to identify
various things that shouldn't happen, but which might anyway, and develop
strategies for dealing with them. Knowing where one might land if the
headwind is greater than expected, adjusting the route for friendlier
emergency landing sites (if possible), identifying alternate airports in
case of things like the original destination being closed, equipment
trouble, emergency bathroom break, etc. (yes, there's overlap in those
various criteria...but it's not always the same overlap).


Once again, all of this is easily done in the air. ... Hmmm, I'm hungry.
What airports are within 50 miles? Oh yeah - there's one. Do they have a
restaurant? (Open the Flight Guide... ) "Albuquerque Center, Skylane 123 is
changing my destination and landing at Santa Fe..."

I have a reasonably reliable Loran in my airplane, and so I admit I do
slack a bit on the groundspeed calculations while enroute. However, I
need to have the waypoints for backup in case the Loran goes south, and
even with the Loran, on longer flights I am still double-checking my
groundspeed with waypoints every 30-60 minutes.


Why? If you are in the air for two hours, and you only have three hours
fuel, get on the ground and refuel. What difference does continually
checking waypoints make?


Note that having a Loran (or even IFR-certified GPS) doesn't obviate the
need for proper planning. Even if the equipment was 100% reliable, you
still need to actually inspect the route for the details along the way, to
avoid obstacles and so that you can double-check your navigation equipment
(even the GPS, which is supposed to tell you when it's lying, can
theoretically go wrong without you knowing...


I do double check it occasionally, out of boredom on some flights - but how
can it "theoretically go wrong without you knowing"? I know about RAIM
errors - they have totaled maybe 5 minutes in the past four years of flying,
and even during the errors the navigation was accurate. But, once again,
even if the GPS miraculously failed, and the hand held backup failed, and
the VOR's (both of them) failed, and the radio died (so I couldn't get
vectors) - I rarely fly more than 30 minutes anywhere in the US without
seeing an airport, or at least a private ranch strip.


Much of my enjoyment of flying comes from the somewhat anachronistic
aspects of it, and I actually like spreading the charts out on the floor
and measuring distances with my plotter. It does take longer, that's for
sure. But for me, it's all part of the whole experience.


Now this I fully appreciate - I rarely do it, but I can see why it is
appealing to some people.

I don't want to sound cavalier about flying. I am fanatical about
maintenance on my plane. I will do extensive planning for a go-no go
decision based on weather. I get an IPC at least once a year, even if I am
current. But it seems to me that for a reasonably high performance plane the
geography of planning has, for the most part, been displaced by technology.

Michael


  #10  
Old June 3rd 05, 09:54 AM
Guillermo
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"Michael 182" wrote in message
...
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight

plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country? Most of my planning is

of
the fuel stop, or occasionally detour for weather variety - but it is rare
for me to include more than one or two waypoints in my "plan", and I

almost
never file an airway, even when I file ifr. Maybe it's because I live in

the
west. A typical flight plan will be Longmont - Amarillo - Austin, or if

the
winds are good, Longmont - Austin. What do others do?


I plan in AOPA flight planner, and since I got my IFR rating I always file
IFR when I'm going somewhere far (i.e. more than 50 miles or so). I usually
don't bother on filing VFR flight plans, as I always have a tough time
talking to FSS to open it, and then I might forget to close it.
The flight planner does the winds, and I try to fly on airways if they don't
take me too much out of the way (if they do, I'll just do direct on the
GPS); in that way if the GPS has a problem it would be less of a hazzle.
I don't select visual checkpoints or plan for landing areas beforehand, but
while I'm flying I am taking a look at the VFR charts, looking for airports
(if VMC) and in general always try to know exactly where I'm at in the VFR
chart. I'll look for emergency landing spots ocasionally as well. I should
do that a little more often.

Fuel is usually not a problem for me. I also keep it at 1.5 hours reserve,
and my last crosscountries have not required fuel stops (I don't go that far
and I got 6 hours of fuel)


 




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