Flight review required?

On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 6:05:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Terry said "Most training gliders fit in light sport.". The 2-33 certainly does, but the Blanik L-23 or the Ask 21 does not due to Vne - or am I missing something?

It is kind of a curious circumstance with the ASK-21. The POH specifies a max all-up weight of 1320 lbs - on the button for the max weight of a light sport aircraft, but the Vne is specified as 151 kts.. - more than a little faster than the 120 kts. Vne the FAA (14 CFR 1.1) limits a light sport aircraft to.

As well, the Grob 103 does not qualify as Light Sport due to too high of a stall speed with the spoilers extended.

Aside from the 2-33, I have not yet seen a popular training glider that fits into Light Sport.

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 6:11:19 AM UTC+3, Bill T wrote:
Light sport aircraft directly limits gliders to a Vne of 120kcas to qualify as light sport.

Seems very inconsistent, as I don't recall a Vne limit for non-gliders.

In any case, what is to prevent you from simply re-placarding your glider to a 120 knot Vne?

120 knots is not Vne for Light Sport. The limit is 120 kts max speed in level flight (Vh). I believe this is also at sea level on a standard day. Vne is probably tailored to the individual aircraft model accounting for structural and flutter concerns.

This is a direct copy from 14 CFR 1.1 under the definition of Light Sport Aircraft:

(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a glider

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 3:07:43 AM UTC+12, wrote:
120 knots is not Vne for Light Sport. The limit is 120 kts max speed in level flight (Vh). I believe this is also at sea level on a standard day. Vne is probably tailored to the individual aircraft model accounting for structural and flutter concerns.

That's what I said.

Yes, that's what you said but it is still not correct. 120 kts. is the specified Vne for Light Sport aircraft. See 14 CFR 1.1.

Here is the link to 1.1

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx....0.1.1.1.0.1.1


See the entire definition of Light Sport Aircraft, specifically item 3 under the definition.

Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:

(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than--

(i) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation on water; or

(ii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation on water.

(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level.

(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a glider.

(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity.

(5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the pilot.

(6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered.

(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than a powered glider.

(8) A fixed or feathering propeller system if a powered glider.

(9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.

(10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.

(11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for operation on water or a glider.

(12) Fixed or retractable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft intended for operation on water.

(13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider.

On 4/22/2016 9:08 AM, Bruce Hoult wrote:
In any case, what is to prevent you from simply re-placarding your glider to a 120 knot Vne?

Because the FAA already thought of that dodge! Notice the words "since
its original certification" in the excerpt below.

"Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or
powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to
meet the following:"

Now if you are certifying a new glider, I see nothing stopping you from
doing something like that. In fact, I think it happens every day in the
Light Sport world. That explains how they can sell a 2-seat Light Sport
airplane that (on paper) has barely enough useful load to carry one
USA-sized pilot. Obviously there is an official gross weight, and
another, higher "wink wink" gross weight.

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 9:37:04 AM UTC-7, Jim Lewis wrote:
Yes, that's what you said but it is still not correct. 120 kts. is the specified Vne for Light Sport aircraft. See 14 CFR 1.1.

On the other hand, the POH for the ASK-21 and for the DG500 both indicate that the Vne is rather like a TAS, so the Vne CAS decreases with altitude. The 120 kts. Vne limit for Light Sport Aircraft (14 CFR 1.1) is a CAS.