Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below

"F. Baum" wrote in message news:f721a757-cfe1-4c34-aef2-

Where did you come up with this. Which airlines are on the brink ?
With the exeption of Doug Parker and USAirways the airlines have been
doing quite well. Pick up a newspaper once in awhile .

Hey, all, just FYI. My wife and I got round-trip UAL tickets to New Orleans
for Mardi Gras for $210 each including taxes last month. In 1997 they were
something like $1,200. I see that they're up to $500-something right now.

Same ol' same ol'. 'Course, last year it took us 45 minutes to fly to NOLA
from Houston and 55 minutes for the building jockey to hook the jetway up to
the airplane so everybody could exit. (The pilot said quipped through the
intercom, "those jetways are complicated devices." I'd bet anything the guy
banging the jetway against the fuselage was making more than the pilot,
since the pilot wasn't making anything while he was sitting there waiting
for the professionals figure out how to open the door.)

-c

On Nov 26, 11:03 am, "F. Baum" wrote:
On Nov 26, 10:50 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:



First, you can only strike if you are part of a union. Federal laws
give unions protections that allow them to gain excess benefits,
beyond what supply and demand allow for. In short, when a union is
involved you do not have a free market (the employeer has his hands
tied and his nuts in a vice).

Robert, this post (Just like many of your other posts) shows that you
dont really have a grasp of the situation. If you dont like organized
labor thats fine, but you are making yourself look silly by painting
things with a broad brush.

In the U.S. all labor unions are exempt from anti-trust laws, so yes
the brush if broad. If employers all tried to get together and set
saleries they would end up in jail pretty quick. The same bahavior is
legal for unions. When a union decides to strike it has no basis in
the current market value of the labor, it is only based on who can
squeeze who's balls the most. Since labor can strike as long as they
want and the employers can't replace them (thereby prooving the labor
value in the market) guess who has the unfair advantage. Nothing free
market about it. If you think there is anything free market about it
you should say so intstead of making vague statements of "you don't
really have a grasp on the situation".
I've worked in the free market (non-union) all my life and I've never
experienced the horror that unions warn us about. I don't get abused
by my employer, I don't get offered below market saleries (which would
be fooling of a company).
If union supporters had the opportunity to run a bussiness for just 6
months they would change their minds. The idea that you can get
unlimited employees of any skill level for nearly free (if it were not
for unions and local laws) is such a fatasy. Why do you think
McDonalds pays above minimum wage, its not because they are just being
nice. Its because there is a market for labor and emploers must pay
what is necessary for people to want to do the job. Why did we just
pay $80K/year for our most recent SA, its not because we were just
being charitable to him. In your world we could just pay him minimum
wage and he'd be happy about it, but that's because union leaders
don't understand the demand side of the labor market.

-Robert, MBA

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:50:24 -0800 (PST), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote in
:

In short, when a union is
involved you do not have a free market (the employeer has his hands
tied and his nuts in a vice).

And without a union, employees are in a similar situation.

If the USAF isn't the training ground for ATRs then instructing is.
It's nice to know the pilots in the military, in addition to flying
some neat airplanes, are paid better than those flying for the
commuter airlines. Who knows, some may decide to stay in the service
longer.

The US has been exporting jobs for a long time, it would be
interesting if now we began to import pilots. Somehow seeing a bearded
man wearing a turban in the left seat would awaken some concerns --
yeah, I know, profiling is not nice.


On Nov 26, 2:06 pm, "Gatt" wrote:
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message

news:37ebfada-110b-4b3e-a0cb-]

Clearly. That's why there's a hiring shortage and they're having to
scrape
the bottom of the barrel of qualified applicants to fill those jobs.

When they run out of apps, they'll raise the pay until they get some
more apps.

That's how it works in every busine
Meanwhile, the cream of the crop will go fly for El Al of Lufthansa, and UAL
scrounges around hiring inexperienced pilots.

Makes perfect sense.

-c

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:06:17 -0800, "Gatt"
wrote in :

Meanwhile, the cream of the crop will go fly for El Al of Lufthansa, and UAL
scrounges around hiring inexperienced pilots.

Makes perfect sense.

Isn't deregulation grand? :-)

Jay Honeck wrote:
Apparently you aren't interested enough. Luckily for the airlines,
other's are. As long as there are lots of applications on their desk
there is no reason to seek out you. I have no doubt that the
airlines will fill their vacacies.

Clearly. That's why there's a hiring shortage and they're having to
scrape the bottom of the barrel of qualified applicants to fill
those jobs.

When they run out of apps, they'll raise the pay until they get some
more apps.

That's how it works in every business.

Well obviously first they are going to lower the number of hours required.
Hey, at 500 they still have some room to lower them further.

Where they will first hear about the problem is when the captains start
bitching about having to fly all the legs because the 1st officer can't even
taxi without running into the grass.

"Tina" wrote in message
news:fb315978-3985-4e96-9461-

The US has been exporting jobs for a long time, it would be interesting if
now we began to import pilots. Somehow seeing a bearded
man wearing a turban in the left seat would awaken some concerns -- yeah,
I know, profiling is not nice.

Not nice, but, reality is reality.

"Hello, my name is Captain Apu Nahasapeemapetilon. Your first officer is
Zheng Xiaoyu. To be thanking you for flying American Airlines..."

-c

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
news:bc402878-8f91-4edb-8ca7-

-Robert, MBA

Ah.

MBA.

That explains everything. MBAs get paid a lot so others don't have to. ;

-c

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...


Well obviously first they are going to lower the number of hours required.
Hey, at 500 they still have some room to lower them further.

Where they will first hear about the problem is when the captains start
bitching about having to fly all the legs because the 1st officer can't
even taxi without running into the grass.

Assuming the captain lives.

"[The runway] looks weird with no lights."
"Yeah..."


-c

On Nov 26, 12:31 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Nov 26, 11:03 am, "F. Baum" wrote:

On Nov 26, 10:50 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Robert, thanks for the response. What I am about to post may seem a
little harsh, but please dont take anything personally. First, I am
greatly amused by your posts. You come off like MX, in the sense that
you may have some basic book knowlege, but never having had a union
card, all of your knowlege is just theory (Thanks for admitting this)
without any experience to back it up. Your post sounds like something
out of a textbook.
Now I am not going to be all one sided so I will readily admit that
there are good unions and bad and they dont always do the best thing.
Every negotiation and contract is different and you have some very
unique considerations in the airline biz. You cannot characterize all
of them from one chapter in your textbook.
Maybe someday we can have a beer at Oshkosh or S&F and I will explain
some of how ALPA works.
F Baum