Nimbus 4DT accident 31 July 2000 in Spain.

jonnyboy wrote:

We know to watch the airspeed but what if it is "just adequate" to fly
safeyl but not maintain a full climb - you decide to chop the launch
and it speeds up -for a few seconds and then back to 48 knots?

I don't let the speed fall to 48 knots in the first place. Of course it
depends on the glider, but my target speed at the winch is between 100
and 110 km/h (55 to 60 knots). I simply don't let it fall below this.
Simple as that. (50 knots is my personal "red line".) I know others are
climbing routinely with 50 knots, but I'm a bit conservative in this point.

If the airspeed approaches 50 knots, I push as needed to keep the speed
up. If I have to push until the horizon appears in the windshield, I
reckon it's a good idea to release and execute plan B.

If I can't control the speed because of gusty conditions, I go faster as
needed, but never slower.

Stefan

At 11:36 29 June 2005, Stefan wrote:
jonnyboy wrote:

We know to watch the airspeed but what if it is 'just
adequate' to fly
safeyl but not maintain a full climb - you decide
to chop the launch
and it speeds up -for a few seconds and then back
to 48 knots?

I don't let the speed fall to 48 knots in the first
place. Of course it
depends on the glider, but my target speed at the winch
is between 100
and 110 km/h (55 to 60 knots). I simply don't let it
fall below this.
Simple as that. (50 knots is my personal 'red line'.)
I know others are
climbing routinely with 50 knots, but I'm a bit conservative
in this point.

If the airspeed approaches 50 knots, I push as needed
to keep the speed
up. If I have to push until the horizon appears in
the windshield, I
reckon it's a good idea to release and execute plan
B.

If I can't control the speed because of gusty conditions,
I go faster as
needed, but never slower.

Stefan

Personally I am long gone before that, if when I pitch
the nose down I do not feel an immediate acceleration
(the winch driver fails to or is unable to react) its
bye bye cable time. Don't forget you have all the weight
of the cable adding to the weight of the glider and
the margins are getting smaller all the time. Better
to land and discuss the reasons for the failure rather
than waiting until an uncomfortable situation becomes
an 'I haven't seen that happen before ' one.

Bill Gribble schrieb:
...
I'm fortunate in that the field I fly from is of a size where,
generally, if you can't land ahead you have ample height to turn
downwind and fly an abbreviated circuit. Of course, it doesn't change
the fact that I may not always have this luxury if I fly from elsewhere.
...

If not there's the third possibility of turning 45=B0 out and then 225=B0
back again to land opposite to the take-off diretion. That's in fact
the most often trained procedure where I fly because it involves being
in unusual places at even more unusual heights. Of course this
"opposite" option should not be flown in strong wind conditions when it
would force you to turn in to stron tailwind close to the ground. But
then it's not necessary anyway because the "straight ahead" and the
"abbreviated circuit" height overlap considerably.
If they don't your airfield is to short for winch launching anyway.

MaD wrote:

Of course this
"opposite" option should not be flown in strong wind conditions when it
would force you to turn in to stron tailwind close to the ground.

Oh pleeease! Not this myth again!

But
then it's not necessary anyway because the "straight ahead" and the
"abbreviated circuit" height overlap considerably.
If they don't your airfield is to short for winch launching anyway.

It doesn't where I fly. The winch is situated away from the 500m runway,
and you can't land between the runway and the winch.

Stefan

Stefan wrote in
:

MaD wrote:

Of course this
"opposite" option should not be flown in strong wind conditions when it
would force you to turn in to stron tailwind close to the ground.

Oh pleeease! Not this myth again!
(snip)

Where I fly it is not too unusual to have 30 knots or more of wind. I am
not afraid of the low 180 degree turn to return to the runway, but the
landing roll out would be "interesting" at best in these conditions. In a
strong wind I am landing into the wind regardless of terrain and
obstructions...
-Bob Korves

Bob Korves wrote:

Where I fly it is not too unusual to have 30 knots or more of wind. I am
not afraid of the low 180 degree turn to return to the runway, but the
landing roll out would be "interesting" at best in these conditions.

Yes, of course. I only referred to the "turn into a tailwind".

Stefan

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:02:39 UTC, Marian Aldenh”vel
wrote:

Before soloing we do a minimum of three excercises where the instructor
pulls the knob at some point during the launch. So it's the real thing,
nothing "emergency-like" there.

Do the instructors have the confidence, though, to pull the bung at
times when there is only one option, and geting it wrong means you're
stuffed?

My experience is that practice cable breaks almost invariably happen
very early, when landing ahead is dead easy, or very late, when a mini
circuit is dead easy. They rarely happen at that awkward in-between
point ...

Not that I'm blaming instructors, you understand - the survival
instinct is pretty natural!

Ian
--

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:25:28 UTC, Marian Aldenh”vel
wrote:

One fellow student made the mistake of telling the instructor that he had
smelled the exercise coming and that it thus was no surprise.

Never trust an instructor who talks to the winch driver out of your
earshot before launch. And if you're flying a Ka2, jam your left knee
hard against the cable release pull rod so s/he can't move it.

Ian

--

Hi,

Do the instructors have the confidence, though, to pull the bung at
times when there is only one option, and geting it wrong means you're
stuffed?

Of the three mandatory exercises there is to be a late one (usually
the first), an early one and, yes, one at an intermediate height.
Corresponding to each of the pre-planned choices.

From what I have seen our instructors do I feel absolutely sure they
have the confidence _and_ the ability to recover safely from an abort
at any stage.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn. +49 228 624013.
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de
"What did you expect to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney
Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest
sweeping majestically across the prairie!" Basil Fawlty

In article dzZo7CxomoOm-pn2-dS4dGzUePd3d@localhost,
"Ian Johnston" wrote:

Do the instructors have the confidence, though, to pull the bung at
times when there is only one option, and geting it wrong means you're
stuffed?

My experience is that practice cable breaks almost invariably happen
very early, when landing ahead is dead easy, or very late, when a mini
circuit is dead easy. They rarely happen at that awkward in-between
point ...

Oh. So you're not supposd to thermal away from a cable break, then?

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------