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$1 billion BMS Ooops...



 
 
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  #161  
Old March 31st 21, 11:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,383
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 11:41:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...?ocid=msedgdhp

This is IT! No more pesky recharging problem.
No more limited self retrieve range!
Sign me up!
Nick
T

Good news, the heat off the "pile" can keep you warm in wave flights!
I'm thinking of "the Martian".......sorta real info although a movie....
  #162  
Old April 1st 21, 12:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Hank Nixon
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Posts: 60
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:30:14 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.

I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive.

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.


Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom

i missed the comment above but will name one who has replaced ICE with electric. That would be me. My ASW-24E(L) has been flying for over a year and has done the first self launch.
UH
  #163  
Old April 1st 21, 01:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,383
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 7:25:19 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:30:14 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.
I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive.

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.


Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom

i missed the comment above but will name one who has replaced ICE with electric. That would be me. My ASW-24E(L) has been flying for over a year and has done the first self launch.
UH

And maybe this spring I get current enough to try it out....
"How hard could it be?"..
  #164  
Old April 1st 21, 03:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

Dave Nadler wrote on 3/31/2021 3:23 PM:
On 3/7/2021 11:30 PM, 2G wrote:
Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.


Somehow I failed to post this earlier:
Patrick McLaughlin designed/built/debugged/delivered an electric self-launch version of the
Sparrowhawk some years ago (called the Owl).
Not a ICDE replacement, but a scratch-built pylon electric self-launcher. Of course he's a bit
more capable than most of us ;-)


I did not know that. Is it documented somewhere accessible?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #165  
Old April 1st 21, 04:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 546
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On 3/16/21 12:44 PM, Mark Mocho wrote:
Don't suppose you went to Poland to verify the performance
numbers?

Are there actually any GP-15 gliders in the hands of private owners? Or are they still on some imaginary delivery schedule? The only one I know of that was in the US was sent back for "upgrades." Don't know if it actually flew before going "home."


Both the one delivered to the U.S., and the factory demonstrator were
recently sold on W&W. Possibly the demonstrator will be in the hands of
a customer RSN. Has the small batteries from what I understand, and not
sure what they did with the wings. The one initially delivered to the
U.S. never got a flight in (without the help of a couple big turbofans).
  #166  
Old April 1st 21, 02:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,610
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On 3/31/2021 10:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dave Nadler wrote on 3/31/2021 3:23 PM:
On 3/7/2021 11:30 PM, 2G wrote:
Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an
electric.


Somehow I failed to post this earlier:
Patrick McLaughlin designed/built/debugged/delivered an electric
self-launch version of the Sparrowhawk some years ago (called the Owl).
Not a ICE replacement, but a scratch-built pylon electric
self-launcher. Of course he's a bit more capable than most of us ;-)


I did not know that. Is it documented somewhere accessible?


Probably in the "Complete guide to self-launch sailplanes" or somewhere...
  #167  
Old April 1st 21, 05:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

What a neat idea! But all of the stacked cells would make your cell
phone weitg on the order of 37 pounds... And the required lead
shielding would another 213 pounds. So you'd need a new Tesla pickup to
cart the thing around...

Dan
5J

On 3/31/21 9:41 AM, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...?ocid=msedgdhp

This is IT! No more pesky recharging problem.
No more limited self retrieve range!
Sign me up!
Nick
T

  #168  
Old April 1st 21, 05:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

Well Charlie,

Since you're a fan of "The Martian" (one of my all-time favorites, BTW),
can you explain to me why JPL had him cut a hole in the top of the rover
and place an inflated balloon in it?

Inquiring minds...

Dan
5J

On 3/31/21 4:49 PM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 11:41:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...?ocid=msedgdhp

This is IT! No more pesky recharging problem.
No more limited self retrieve range!
Sign me up!
Nick
T

Good news, the heat off the "pile" can keep you warm in wave flights!
I'm thinking of "the Martian".......sorta real info although a movie....

  #169  
Old April 2nd 21, 05:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 4:25:19 PM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:30:14 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.
I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive.

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.


Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom

i missed the comment above but will name one who has replaced ICE with electric. That would be me. My ASW-24E(L) has been flying for over a year and has done the first self launch.
UH


And you missed my reply to whomever pointed that out. Basically, you did it to achieve self-launch capability and the effort involved was not worth it..
  #170  
Old April 2nd 21, 01:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Hank Nixon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 12:40:11 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 4:25:19 PM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:30:14 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.
I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive.

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.

Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom

i missed the comment above but will name one who has replaced ICE with electric. That would be me. My ASW-24E(L) has been flying for over a year and has done the first self launch.
UH

And you missed my reply to whomever pointed that out. Basically, you did it to achieve self-launch capability and the effort involved was not worth it.


It was worth it to me. My objective was(is) a self launching sailplane of practical size and weight for regular assembly and disassembly that I can fly when I don't have a towplane available. This may not meet your needs or objectives. It has been an interesting and challenging project, not without setbacks. A good project for a retired engineer and sailplane modifier that wanted something interesting to do. You seem to think that something that does not meet your needs is not worthwhile. An open mind that sees that there are many valid points of view is a good thing.
That said, I'm not suggesting that others that don't have my experience, time, and resources try do do the same thing.
How hard could it be?
UH
 




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