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#11
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Average time to solo a student
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG. me (CindyB change) 6:33 PM (less than a minute ago) On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote: I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG. I soloed a new student this weekend. snip He snip did a spectacular job. On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a glider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student doesn't have nearly that many flights. Opinions? Congrats to the new solo pilot! Opinions on r.a.s.? Ha! Lots of them, but you've got answers from a few fine instructors. More than 25 years CFI-G responding here. Factors to consider on flight count to a solo: Consistency of training (number of CFIs) Frequency of training (best is alternate days, typical is 1x weekly) Age of student (~25 flites plus 1 per year over age 40) Emotional, physical or intellectual deficits (dominant eye, musculature for controls, fear of flight, etc.) Intellectual prep prior or concurrent with flying (Reading and study) Valid simulator training experience (Condor's Great! Cuts airtime responsibly.) Thoroughness of training syllabus (What variety of emergency prep?) Potential weather variability and scale at solo location. The student's mental outlook, responsibility and openness to ongoing training toward the rating. A lesser impact on flight count is complexity of machine or launch method. The student doesn't know what they don't know. Give them a 2-33 or a DG-500 and they will learn rates for desired reactions. As the CFI-G, you have to believe they will handle whatever comes their way during their solo supervision period. Engine/prop/mast complexities if self-launching. The abruptness of disarray in a botched winch start. The management of slack line and towing position and PT3s of aerotowing - flight as a formation and its necessary communication foibles/weaknesses. You gave us little insight to allow us to respond with pertinent info. The gentlemen responded generically, appropriately. Aerotow, once a week, variable weather, motivated reader, 2-33 through fixed gear glass ~30:1, typically 12-14 weeks and 30-35 to solo. But I am known to be thorough on the emergency procedures training. Straight-ahead break, abbrev pattern 2-3 times from different places, downwind landing in 5-8 kts. That's 4 flights. Sprinkled thru the experience. Full spoiler locked-open landing. Slip to a landing (no spoilers till touched). A wave-off or two at the top of some tow or other. It keeps them thinking..... not coasting. Thanks for being curious. Thanks for teaching. Cindy Brickner Mojave, CA |
#12
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Average time to solo a student
I have seen a statistic averaged over many solos.
20 starts + 1 for every year over the age of 20 for aerotow 20 starts + 2 for every year over the age of 20 for winch |
#13
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Average time to solo a student
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG. I soloed a new student this weekend. He flew three solo flights & did a spectacular job. He has no former flying experience so he wasn't the typical add-on pilot that I'm usually teaching. On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a glider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student doesn't have nearly that many flights. Opinions? |
#14
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Average time to solo a student
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG. I soloed a new student this weekend. He flew three solo flights & did a spectacular job. He has no former flying experience so he wasn't the typical add-on pilot that I'm usually teaching. On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a glider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student doesn't have nearly that many flights. Opinions? I soloed on my 20th flight with zero previous flying experience. Credit this to having 3 to 4 flights a day for 6 flying days over a 5 week period. |
#15
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Average time to solo a student
15 starts here. Then three months later off doing intentional cross country. And 42 years more it's still damn fun. Hope the new inductee goes crazy with soaring too.
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#16
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Average time to solo a student
On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:55:12 PM UTC+12, CindyB wrote:
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote: I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG. me (CindyB change) 6:33 PM (less than a minute ago) On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote: I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airplane student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a CFIG. I soloed a new student this weekend. snip He snip did a spectacular job. On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a glider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student doesn't have nearly that many flights. Opinions? Congrats to the new solo pilot! Opinions on r.a.s.? Ha! Lots of them, but you've got answers from a few fine instructors. More than 25 years CFI-G responding here. Factors to consider on flight count to a solo: Consistency of training (number of CFIs) Frequency of training (best is alternate days, typical is 1x weekly) Age of student (~25 flites plus 1 per year over age 40) Emotional, physical or intellectual deficits (dominant eye, musculature for controls, fear of flight, etc.) Intellectual prep prior or concurrent with flying (Reading and study) Valid simulator training experience (Condor's Great! Cuts airtime responsibly.) Thoroughness of training syllabus (What variety of emergency prep?) Potential weather variability and scale at solo location. The student's mental outlook, responsibility and openness to ongoing training toward the rating. A lesser impact on flight count is complexity of machine or launch method.. The student doesn't know what they don't know. Give them a 2-33 or a DG-500 and they will learn rates for desired reactions. As the CFI-G, you have to believe they will handle whatever comes their way during their solo supervision period. Engine/prop/mast complexities if self-launching. The abruptness of disarray in a botched winch start. The management of slack line and towing position and PT3s of aerotowing - flight as a formation and its necessary communication foibles/weaknesses. You gave us little insight to allow us to respond with pertinent info. The gentlemen responded generically, appropriately. Aerotow, once a week, variable weather, motivated reader, 2-33 through fixed gear glass ~30:1, typically 12-14 weeks and 30-35 to solo. But I am known to be thorough on the emergency procedures training. Straight-ahead break, abbrev pattern 2-3 times from different places, downwind landing in 5-8 kts. That's 4 flights. Sprinkled thru the experience. Full spoiler locked-open landing. Slip to a landing (no spoilers till touched). A wave-off or two at the top of some tow or other. It keeps them thinking..... not coasting. Thanks for being curious. Thanks for teaching. Cindy Brickner Mojave, CA A factor you missed. Is soloing: - ability to safely launch and execute a circuit to landing on a calm windless late afternoon "I FLEW AN AIRCRAFT ALL BY MYSELF!" OR - ability to safely launch in active thermic (bumpy and/or a bit of wind) or ridge (definitely some wind) conditions and stay up for half an hour. ? If you're training towards the latter then you're probably going to fly with the student on days on which they can't yet reasonably practice the launch or approach to progress towards solo, but you can go off and do a bot of actual soaring and even a small cross-country with them. That adds flights and hours to the time before solo. |
#17
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Average time to solo a student
Is there a contest to see who can send someone solo the fastest?
In the UK the ATC used to send cadets solo in a tiny number of launches, something like 20 winch launches. They achieved this by cutting out everything that wasn't essential, including circuit planning and most emergencies. Thy were solo but that was all. The civilian clubs took many more launches, it took me 44 which was pretty average for a teenager, but had been taught stalling and spinning, launch failures, circuit planning and soaring. As a result my 4th solo was 20 minutes off the wire for my C certificate. With the current pre solo syllabus it would be a challenge to get everything covered in 20 aerotows. What I tend to tell people after I send them solo is "Now you can learn to fly". That's how it felt to me, and it still does. Chris At 05:24 05 June 2018, Bruce Hoult wrote: On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:55:12 PM UTC+12, CindyB wrote: On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote: I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airpla= ne student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a C= FIG. =20 =20 me (CindyB change) =09 6:33 PM (less than a minute ago) On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:43:58 PM UTC-7, wrote: I'm a very experienced power pilot CFI & have soloed hundreds of airpla= ne student pilots over the years. That said, I'm not as experienced as a C= FIG. I soloed a new student this weekend. He did a spectacula= r job. =20 On line it appears in several places that the average time to solo a gl= ider is around 40 flights. Is they information accurate? My student doesn= 't have nearly that many flights. Opinions? =20 Congrats to the new solo pilot! Opinions on r.a.s.? Ha! Lots of them, but you've got answers from a few= fine instructors. More than 25 years CFI-G responding here. =20 Factors to consider on flight count to a solo: Consistency of training (number of CFIs) Frequency of training (best is alternate days, typical is 1x weekly) Age of student (~25 flites plus 1 per year over age 40) Emotional, physical or intellectual deficits (dominant eye, musculature for controls, fear of flight, etc.) Intellectual prep prior or concurrent with flying (Reading and study) Valid simulator training experience (Condor's Great! Cuts airtime respon= sibly.) Thoroughness of training syllabus (What variety of emergency prep?) Potential weather variability and scale at solo location. The student's mental outlook, responsibility and openness to ongoing tra= ining toward the rating. =20 =20 A lesser impact on flight count is complexity of machine or launch method= .. The student doesn't know what they don't know. Give them a 2-33 or a DG-= 500 and they will learn rates for desired reactions. =20 As the CFI-G, you have to believe they will handle whatever comes their w= ay during their solo supervision period. Engine/prop/mast complexities if s= elf-launching. The abruptness of disarray in a botched winch start. The ma= nagement of slack line and towing position and PT3s of aerotowing - flight = as a formation and its necessary communication foibles/weaknesses. =20 =20 You gave us little insight to allow us to respond with pertinent info. Th= e gentlemen responded generically, appropriately. =20 Aerotow, once a week, variable weather, motivated reader, 2-33 through fi= xed gear glass ~30:1, typically 12-14 weeks and 30-35 to solo. But I am kn= own to be thorough on the emergency procedures training. Straight-ahead break, abbrev pattern 2-3 times from different places, = downwind landing in 5-8 kts. That's 4 flights. Sprinkled thru the experienc= e. Full spoiler locked-open landing. Slip to a landing (no spoilers till tou= ched). A wave-off or two at the top of some tow or other. It keeps them thinking..... not coasting. =20 Thanks for being curious. Thanks for teaching. =20 Cindy Brickner Mojave, CA A factor you missed. Is soloing: - ability to safely launch and execute a circuit to landing on a calm windl= ess late afternoon "I FLEW AN AIRCRAFT ALL BY MYSELF!" OR - ability to safely launch in active thermic (bumpy and/or a bit of wind) o= r ridge (definitely some wind) conditions and stay up for half an hour. ? If you're training towards the latter then you're probably going to fly wit= h the student on days on which they can't yet reasonably practice the launc= h or approach to progress towards solo, but you can go off and do a bot of = actual soaring and even a small cross-country with them. That adds flights = and hours to the time before solo. |
#18
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Average time to solo a student
Always helpful to have some real numbers...
I did an analysis of flights to solo across my club's membership over a period (sample size 155 first solos). This is a primarily winch launch club. (I think as has been pointed out the number of flights will be less with pure aerotow). The average was 63. But I don't think the average is very helpful in this discussion given the huge range that it covered - the std deviation was 38. What was interesting, and contrary to the received wisdom, was that there was a much smaller correlation with age than might have been expected. There were a few outliers, some older people took a very large number of flights, but on the whole there wasn't a great age effect. Paul |
#19
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Average time to solo a student
I have to say that after learning on airtow, Im very glad I went on to do several years of winch launching, I learnt very valuable lessons in flying low,
after simulated cable breaks and highly modified circuits. I would recommend it to any glider pilot. The acceleration can be a bit intmidating at first, but soon becomes your best friend. |
#20
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Average time to solo a student
On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 04:19:38 -0700, mikestandishmic wrote:
I have to say that after learning on airtow, Im very glad I went on to do several years of winch launching, I learnt very valuable lessons in flying low, after simulated cable breaks and highly modified circuits. I would recommend it to any glider pilot. The acceleration can be a bit intmidating at first, but soon becomes your best friend. I learnt to fly on a winch - same club as Paul. I was 52 at the time and took 80 launches to solo - pretty much in line with the rule of thumb that was told me "pilot age in years + 30". This also included a no-instrument launch, circuit and landing plus pre- solo stall and spin training all - done off the winch in an ASK-21 *without* tail weights because our paid instructor that year knew how to spin a '21 at our combined cockpit load without them. I should say that spinning was done after thermal climbs to a suitable altitude - it was a rather good summer. I might equally have done spin training in a Puchacz (we had and have one and I was introduced to it at 20th launch) - pre- solo I regularly flew all our two seaters at the time (T.21, G103, ASK-21, Puchacz). -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
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