Turn to Final - Keeping Ball Centered

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
news:575932e0-ef5f-4870-be93-43f2005fc961
@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
On Mar 15, 1:27 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Chuck Yeager wasn't the first through the sound barrier :-))
Yes, but how many of those who preceeded Chuck through the
sound barrier
lived to tell about it?
Vaughn
Actually, the guy who did it did it just the week before Yeager
and he most certainly did live to tell about it. He finally
lost
his life in a crash during the F100 program while working as a
test pilot for NORTH AMERICAN Aviation.
There's some debate on that, isn't there? Some suspicion of
compressibility?
Bertie
There will always be debate on it due to the various issues that
surrounded the incident, but the word is rock solid that Welsh
broke the barrier the week prior to Yeager's attempt in the X1 if
you dig deep enough. Welsh said he was going to attempt it the
week before in the prototype F86, and he had a ton of witnesses
sitting at the bar at Pancho's who heard it when he went through.
The AF squelched it due to considerations in play with Bell at
the
time, but there is general acceptance in the flight est community
that Welch did indeed bust through on his last dive of the day.
His flight test data card wasn't programmed for the high Mach
dive
and he did it on his own call.
Yeager has known that Welsh broke the barrier since day one as he
knew almost everybody who was at Pancho's that day,and has to my
knowledge anyway, just let it slide as he rode an entire career
on
his "reputation". Officially, the AF I believe revised Yeager's
X1
flight to say he wa the first to break Mach one in LEVEL FLIGHT.
The "debate" will probably go on forever, but Welsh was the man!!
I read a few years back that the russians may have done it in 46
in
something they captured from the germans. what it was I do not
know, but they weren't interested in advertising it since it
wasn't
a russian aircraft. I think they got ahold of the TA183 and it may
have been that. They did seem to have a fascination for that
design as reflected by some of their own efforts, particularly
Lavotchkin and Mig. If anything should have been capable it would
have been the TA 183. No stab trim though AFAIK.
Well, as much as I respect the work of Kurt Tank, I don't think he
made it through Mach 1 with the TA183. There was a ton of fuselage
drag on that thing. Even the Mig 15 which a lot of people believe
was
loosely based on Tank's design, couldn't get through Mach 1.
The "barrel planes" just had too much parasite drag .
This having been said, I never quite get to the point on these
things
where I never say never :-)) Those were highly secretive times, but
the basic designs don't pass muster with the guys I know who crack
the numbers on the supersonic math :-))
We'll have to ask Tucker. I'm sure he has the answer :-))
Dudley Henriques
Ok Mr. Dud, It seems probable to me that a Me-163
could exceed Mach 1 in a dive, and likely did.

Nope, you're an idiot.


Bertie
I wonder if Mr. Tucker realizes that by the time the 163 got high
enough
to "dive" it became a glider :-))


By the time Tucker gets high enough to dive he bcomes a boob.

Bertie
Yeah, but I believe he has a head start! :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in news:3LudnfZqkqMG-
:


By the time Tucker gets high enough to dive he bcomes a boob.

Bertie
Yeah, but I believe he has a head start! :-)


You gotta wonder how someone gets that stupid, really


Bertie

On Mar 15, 4:06 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
news:575932e0-ef5f-4870-be93-43f2005fc961
@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
On Mar 15, 1:27 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
news:dO2dnVi2FNM4b0banZ2dnUVZ_rbinZ2d@rc n.net...
Chuck Yeager wasn't the first through the sound barrier :-))
Yes, but how many of those who preceeded Chuck through the
sound barrier
lived to tell about it?
Vaughn
Actually, the guy who did it did it just the week before Yeager
and he most certainly did live to tell about it. He finally
lost
his life in a crash during the F100 program while working as a
test pilot for NORTH AMERICAN Aviation.
There's some debate on that, isn't there? Some suspicion of
compressibility?
Bertie
There will always be debate on it due to the various issues that
surrounded the incident, but the word is rock solid that Welsh
broke the barrier the week prior to Yeager's attempt in the X1 if
you dig deep enough. Welsh said he was going to attempt it the
week before in the prototype F86, and he had a ton of witnesses
sitting at the bar at Pancho's who heard it when he went through.
The AF squelched it due to considerations in play with Bell at
the
time, but there is general acceptance in the flight est community
that Welch did indeed bust through on his last dive of the day.
His flight test data card wasn't programmed for the high Mach
dive
and he did it on his own call.
Yeager has known that Welsh broke the barrier since day one as he
knew almost everybody who was at Pancho's that day,and has to my
knowledge anyway, just let it slide as he rode an entire career
on
his "reputation". Officially, the AF I believe revised Yeager's
X1
flight to say he wa the first to break Mach one in LEVEL FLIGHT.
The "debate" will probably go on forever, but Welsh was the man!!
I read a few years back that the russians may have done it in 46
in
something they captured from the germans. what it was I do not
know, but they weren't interested in advertising it since it
wasn't
a russian aircraft. I think they got ahold of the TA183 and it may
have been that. They did seem to have a fascination for that
design as reflected by some of their own efforts, particularly
Lavotchkin and Mig. If anything should have been capable it would
have been the TA 183. No stab trim though AFAIK.
Well, as much as I respect the work of Kurt Tank, I don't think he
made it through Mach 1 with the TA183. There was a ton of fuselage
drag on that thing. Even the Mig 15 which a lot of people believe
was
loosely based on Tank's design, couldn't get through Mach 1.
The "barrel planes" just had too much parasite drag .
This having been said, I never quite get to the point on these
things
where I never say never :-)) Those were highly secretive times, but
the basic designs don't pass muster with the guys I know who crack
the numbers on the supersonic math :-))
We'll have to ask Tucker. I'm sure he has the answer :-))
Dudley Henriques
Ok Mr. Dud, It seems probable to me that a Me-163
could exceed Mach 1 in a dive, and likely did.

Nope, you're an idiot.

Bertie
I wonder if Mr. Tucker realizes that by the time the 163 got high
enough
to "dive" it became a glider :-))

By the time Tucker gets high enough to dive he bcomes a boob.

Bertie

Yeah, but I believe he has a head start! :-)

Hey Dud, bertie is an outright ****ing queer,
I've noticed you kiss his asshole alot, why?

Anyway, the Me-163C was certainly able
to do Mach+ in a shallow dive. Hell, even
the twinky straight winged CF-100 could
do that with junky canucky jets, and canux
knew ****-all about flying (still don't).
-
Dudley Henriques

One of the reasons why I pulled your last star
is because you're an ass-kisser as bertie demo'd.
Ken

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
:

On Mar 15, 4:06 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
news:575932e0-ef5f-4870-be93-43f2005fc961
@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
On Mar 15, 1:27 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
news:dO2dnVi2FNM4b0banZ2dnUVZ_rbinZ2d@rc n.net...
Chuck Yeager wasn't the first through the sound barrier
:-))
Yes, but how many of those who preceeded Chuck through
the sound barrier
lived to tell about it?
Vaughn
Actually, the guy who did it did it just the week before
Yeager and he most certainly did live to tell about it. He
finally
lost
his life in a crash during the F100 program while working
as a test pilot for NORTH AMERICAN Aviation.
There's some debate on that, isn't there? Some suspicion of
compressibility?
Bertie
There will always be debate on it due to the various issues
that surrounded the incident, but the word is rock solid that
Welsh broke the barrier the week prior to Yeager's attempt in
the X1 if you dig deep enough. Welsh said he was going to
attempt it the week before in the prototype F86, and he had a
ton of witnesses sitting at the bar at Pancho's who heard it
when he went through. The AF squelched it due to
considerations in play with Bell at
the
time, but there is general acceptance in the flight est
community that Welch did indeed bust through on his last dive
of the day. His flight test data card wasn't programmed for
the high Mach
dive
and he did it on his own call.
Yeager has known that Welsh broke the barrier since day one
as he knew almost everybody who was at Pancho's that day,and
has to my knowledge anyway, just let it slide as he rode an
entire career
on
his "reputation". Officially, the AF I believe revised
Yeager's
X1
flight to say he wa the first to break Mach one in LEVEL
FLIGHT. The "debate" will probably go on forever, but Welsh
was the man!!
I read a few years back that the russians may have done it in
46
in
something they captured from the germans. what it was I do not
know, but they weren't interested in advertising it since it
wasn't
a russian aircraft. I think they got ahold of the TA183 and it
may have been that. They did seem to have a fascination for
that design as reflected by some of their own efforts,
particularly Lavotchkin and Mig. If anything should have been
capable it would have been the TA 183. No stab trim though
AFAIK.
Well, as much as I respect the work of Kurt Tank, I don't think
he made it through Mach 1 with the TA183. There was a ton of
fuselage drag on that thing. Even the Mig 15 which a lot of
people believe
was
loosely based on Tank's design, couldn't get through Mach 1.
The "barrel planes" just had too much parasite drag .
This having been said, I never quite get to the point on these
things
where I never say never :-)) Those were highly secretive times,
but the basic designs don't pass muster with the guys I know
who crack the numbers on the supersonic math :-))
We'll have to ask Tucker. I'm sure he has the answer :-))
Dudley Henriques
Ok Mr. Dud, It seems probable to me that a Me-163
could exceed Mach 1 in a dive, and likely did.

Nope, you're an idiot.

Bertie
I wonder if Mr. Tucker realizes that by the time the 163 got high
enough
to "dive" it became a glider :-))

By the time Tucker gets high enough to dive he bcomes a boob.

Bertie

Yeah, but I believe he has a head start! :-)

Hey Dud, bertie is an outright ****ing queer,
I've noticed you kiss his asshole alot, why?

Anyway, the Me-163C was certainly able
to do Mach+ in a shallow dive.


No, it wasn;t, fjukkwit.


Hell, even
the twinky straight winged CF-100 could
do that with junky canucky jets, and canux
knew ****-all about flying (still don't).

You're an idiot.
-
Dudley Henriques

One of the reasons why I pulled your last star
is because you're an ass-kisser as bertie demo'd.

You must be gutted Dudley.

Bertie

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 15, 4:06 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
news:575932e0-ef5f-4870-be93-43f2005fc961
@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
On Mar 15, 1:27 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Chuck Yeager wasn't the first through the sound barrier :-))
Yes, but how many of those who preceeded Chuck through the
sound barrier
lived to tell about it?
Vaughn
Actually, the guy who did it did it just the week before Yeager
and he most certainly did live to tell about it. He finally
lost
his life in a crash during the F100 program while working as a
test pilot for NORTH AMERICAN Aviation.
There's some debate on that, isn't there? Some suspicion of
compressibility?
Bertie
There will always be debate on it due to the various issues that
surrounded the incident, but the word is rock solid that Welsh
broke the barrier the week prior to Yeager's attempt in the X1 if
you dig deep enough. Welsh said he was going to attempt it the
week before in the prototype F86, and he had a ton of witnesses
sitting at the bar at Pancho's who heard it when he went through.
The AF squelched it due to considerations in play with Bell at
the
time, but there is general acceptance in the flight est community
that Welch did indeed bust through on his last dive of the day.
His flight test data card wasn't programmed for the high Mach
dive
and he did it on his own call.
Yeager has known that Welsh broke the barrier since day one as he
knew almost everybody who was at Pancho's that day,and has to my
knowledge anyway, just let it slide as he rode an entire career
on
his "reputation". Officially, the AF I believe revised Yeager's
X1
flight to say he wa the first to break Mach one in LEVEL FLIGHT.
The "debate" will probably go on forever, but Welsh was the man!!
I read a few years back that the russians may have done it in 46
in
something they captured from the germans. what it was I do not
know, but they weren't interested in advertising it since it
wasn't
a russian aircraft. I think they got ahold of the TA183 and it may
have been that. They did seem to have a fascination for that
design as reflected by some of their own efforts, particularly
Lavotchkin and Mig. If anything should have been capable it would
have been the TA 183. No stab trim though AFAIK.
Well, as much as I respect the work of Kurt Tank, I don't think he
made it through Mach 1 with the TA183. There was a ton of fuselage
drag on that thing. Even the Mig 15 which a lot of people believe
was
loosely based on Tank's design, couldn't get through Mach 1.
The "barrel planes" just had too much parasite drag .
This having been said, I never quite get to the point on these
things
where I never say never :-)) Those were highly secretive times, but
the basic designs don't pass muster with the guys I know who crack
the numbers on the supersonic math :-))
We'll have to ask Tucker. I'm sure he has the answer :-))
Dudley Henriques
Ok Mr. Dud, It seems probable to me that a Me-163
could exceed Mach 1 in a dive, and likely did.
Nope, you're an idiot.
Bertie
I wonder if Mr. Tucker realizes that by the time the 163 got high
enough
to "dive" it became a glider :-))
By the time Tucker gets high enough to dive he bcomes a boob.
Bertie
Yeah, but I believe he has a head start! :-)

Hey Dud, bertie is an outright ****ing queer,
I've noticed you kiss his asshole alot, why?

Anyway, the Me-163C was certainly able
to do Mach+ in a shallow dive. Hell, even
the twinky straight winged CF-100 could
do that with junky canucky jets, and canux
knew ****-all about flying (still don't).
-
Dudley Henriques

One of the reasons why I pulled your last star
is because you're an ass-kisser as bertie demo'd.
Ken
I've noticed your language seems to get worse the more wrong you are Ken :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 16, 12:56 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:


I've noticed your language seems to get worse the more wrong you are Ken :-)

The gay reference is somewhat similar to invoking the Godwin ..
He loses

george wrote:
On Mar 16, 12:56 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I've noticed your language seems to get worse the more wrong you are Ken :-)

The gay reference is somewhat similar to invoking the Godwin ..
He loses

"Reductio_ad_Hitlerum"
:-))
--
Dudley Henriques

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:55:55 -0400, "Peter Dohm"
wrote:


"Roger" wrote in message
.. .
--------some snipped----------

Yup and half standard when you get any where near the airport. (Time
for a PARg)

I had wonderedl whether those were even still available.

I rarely see them listed, but the nearby commercial airport was still
issuing them on request. At one time when I was flying in there quite
often I'd regularly get requests to fly a PAR for a trainee
controller. Flying one when you can see is more difficult than flying
one when you can't. You almost invariably try to fly it as your eyes
tell you instead of what the controller says. Of course watching them
on the instruments really means you have to fight your instincts. A
beginner can have you S-turning across the localizer all the way down
the GS. They've always been pretty close on the GS.

Peter

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ...
Yeager has known that Welsh broke the barrier since day one as he knew
almost everybody who was at Pancho's that day,and has to my knowledge
anyway, just let it slide as he rode an entire career on his "reputation".
Officially, the AF I believe revised Yeager's X1 flight to say he wa the
first to break Mach one in LEVEL FLIGHT.
The "debate" will probably go on forever, but Welsh was the man!!

--
Dudley Henriques

Level flight is the key here...

There was apparently also someone who made it through in a prop fighter diving, got lucky and pulled it out...

"Blueskies" wrote in message
...


There was apparently also someone who made it through in a prop fighter
diving, got lucky and pulled it out...

If you were to do a literature search, you would probably find many making
that claim. It is one of those things that can never be proven one way or
another, so the claims will go on forever.

More to the point, (and brazenly contributing to the subject drift) has
anyone ever broken the sound barrier in any prop plane in a verifiable and
repeatable manner?

Vaughn