OLC Scoring for 2011

I am quite confused by the 15 km start rule. I find the only
reference to motor-gliders, not to tows, and only to "league" flights.

Can someone refer me to the source for the concern?

thanks,


Robert (666)

On Oct 19, 7:51*am, robert hunter wrote:
I am quite confused by the 15 km start rule. *I find the only
reference to motor-gliders, not to tows, and only to "league" flights.

Can someone refer me to the source for the concern?

thanks,

Robert (666)

The new rule is intended to weed out motorgliders who fly more than
15km from the launch, but will penalize gliders who take long tows.
It does appear to be applied only to league flights, but I guess we
will only find out when pilots submit files for scoring.

Mike

On 10/19/2010 8:03 AM, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Oct 19, 7:51 am, robert wrote:
I am quite confused by the 15 km start rule. I find the only
reference to motor-gliders, not to tows, and only to "league" flights.

Can someone refer me to the source for the concern?

thanks,

Robert (666)

The new rule is intended to weed out motorgliders who fly more than
15km from the launch, but will penalize gliders who take long tows.
It does appear to be applied only to league flights, but I guess we
will only find out when pilots submit files for scoring.

Mike

Yes, it does apply only to "league" flights (Speed-OLC scoring).

Last Thursday there were a lot of flights that flunked the 15km rule in
California. Look he http://tinyurl.com/26fkt4d

Due to the 15 km/h rule, a dozen flights received a Speed-OLC speed of
less than 1 km/h. All were pure gliders.






Take at look at the flights he

On Oct 19, 8:35*am, Greg Arnold wrote:
On 10/19/2010 8:03 AM, Mike the Strike wrote:



On Oct 19, 7:51 am, robert *wrote:
I am quite confused by the 15 km start rule. *I find the only
reference to motor-gliders, not to tows, and only to "league" flights.

Can someone refer me to the source for the concern?

thanks,

Robert (666)

The new rule is intended to weed out motorgliders who fly more than
15km from the launch, but will penalize gliders who take long tows.
It does appear to be applied only to league flights, but I guess we
will only find out when pilots submit files for scoring.

Mike

Yes, it does apply only to "league" flights (Speed-OLC scoring).

Last Thursday there were a lot of flights that flunked the 15km rule in
California. *Look he *http://tinyurl.com/26fkt4d

Due to the 15 km/h rule, a dozen flights received a Speed-OLC speed of
less than 1 km/h. *All were pure gliders.

Take at look at the flights he

That surely shows that tows are within the 15km exclusion. But I
would still like to see the source. Greg, any reference to the OLC
rules themselves, or other, to get the wording? The only doc. I find
is "Friday, October 15
OLC 2011: Foresight into future!"

On 10/19/2010 9:53 AM, robert hunter wrote:


That surely shows that tows are within the 15km exclusion. But I
would still like to see the source. Greg, any reference to the OLC
rules themselves, or other, to get the wording? The only doc. I find
is "Friday, October 15
OLC 2011: Foresight into future!"


I think that may be the only source. I don't see this in the rules, but
I could be looking at the wrong place.

Am 19.10.2010 19:13, Greg Arnold wrote:
On 10/19/2010 9:53 AM, robert hunter wrote:


That surely shows that tows are within the 15km exclusion. But I
would still like to see the source. Greg, any reference to the OLC
rules themselves, or other, to get the wording? The only doc. I find
is "Friday, October 15
OLC 2011: Foresight into future!"


I think that may be the only source. I don't see this in the rules, but
I could be looking at the wrong place.

From RULES OLC League 2011 (12.10.2010)
....

4.5 Start Circle

Before the sprint departure point, the powerless flight must begin
within, or pass through, a cylinder with a radius of 15km centered on
the take-off airfield.
....

The reason for this rule is obviously the multiple complains from
participating pilots, (IIRC mainly from Germany) that in the German
"Bundesliga" speed competition it became popular amongst powered glider
pilots to motor into the good weather, start the 2.5h speed task and
eventually glide or motor back to the airfield of their departure, while
pure gliders were not able to achieve this when departing from the same
ore equivalent airfield.

Now with the new rule we suspect the motorglieder pilots will just motor
to an airfield near the good weatrher region, do a quick touch-and-go
there and then start their task within the 15km range of that (new)
starting airfield. This will again be impossible to achieve for pure
gliders.

All in all IMHO a totally silly rule. But as the OLC rules are not
discussed with a larger group of pilots, nor with the German DAeC, we
see no easy way to take influence.

Maybe we will have to start another competition sooner or later...
--
Peter Scholz
ASW24 JE

On Oct 19, 10:13*am, Greg Arnold wrote:
On 10/19/2010 9:53 AM, robert hunter wrote:



That surely shows that tows are within the 15km exclusion. *But I
would still like to see the source. *Greg, any reference to the OLC
rules themselves, or other, to get the wording? *The only doc. I find
is "Friday, October 15
OLC 2011: Foresight into future!"

I think that may be the only source. *I don't see this in the rules, but
I could be looking at the wrong place.

If there is a reader of German in this group, I request he or she read
the new rules in German, and let us know if towed gliders are
included. From the English version of the 15th announcement, there is
is no indication of applicability to towed gliders. Indeed, the
rationale in that version is to diminish the perceived bump
motorgliders get from propulsion, and that bump is defined as (a)
restarting the engine in flight to get another bite at the apple and
(b) flying far away from home for a start. Arguably, a long tow fits
the (b) condition, but the the fit is not very good; the pure glider
still has to get back on its own, and any glider can take a long tow.

Am 19.10.2010 19:47, robert hunter wrote:
On Oct 19, 10:13 am, Greg wrote:
On 10/19/2010 9:53 AM, robert hunter wrote:



That surely shows that tows are within the 15km exclusion. But I
would still like to see the source. Greg, any reference to the OLC
rules themselves, or other, to get the wording? The only doc. I find
is "Friday, October 15
OLC 2011: Foresight into future!"

I think that may be the only source. I don't see this in the rules, but
I could be looking at the wrong place.

If there is a reader of German in this group, I request he or she read
the new rules in German, and let us know if towed gliders are
included. From the English version of the 15th announcement, there is
is no indication of applicability to towed gliders. Indeed, the
rationale in that version is to diminish the perceived bump
motorgliders get from propulsion, and that bump is defined as (a)
restarting the engine in flight to get another bite at the apple and
(b) flying far away from home for a start. Arguably, a long tow fits
the (b) condition, but the the fit is not very good; the pure glider
still has to get back on its own, and any glider can take a long tow.

the rule 4.5 does not explicitely mention tow flight, neither in the
English or German version:

(German version)
4.5 Startkreis

Vor dem Sprintabflugpunkt muss der antriebslose Flug in einem Zylinder
mit 15km Radius um den Startplatz beginnen beziehungsweise diesen kreuzen.
...........

(English version)
4.5 Start Circle

Before the sprint departure point, the powerless flight must begin
within, or pass through, a cylinder with a radius of 15km centered on
the take-off airfield.
............

So the wording "antriebsloser Flug" can be translated as "powerless
flight", or "flight without propulsion". Common sense would include both
aerotow and selfpowered flights, I guess.
--
Peter Scholz
ASW24 JE

On Oct 19, 11:08*am, Peter Scholz
wrote:
Am 19.10.2010 19:47, robert hunter wrote:





On Oct 19, 10:13 am, Greg *wrote:
On 10/19/2010 9:53 AM, robert hunter wrote:

That surely shows that tows are within the 15km exclusion. *But I
would still like to see the source. *Greg, any reference to the OLC
rules themselves, or other, to get the wording? *The only doc. I find
is "Friday, October 15
OLC 2011: Foresight into future!"

I think that may be the only source. *I don't see this in the rules, but
I could be looking at the wrong place.

If there is a reader of German in this group, I request he or she read
the *new rules in German, and let us know if towed gliders are
included. *From the English version of the 15th announcement, there is
is no indication of applicability to towed gliders. *Indeed, the
rationale in that version is to diminish the perceived bump
motorgliders get from propulsion, and that bump is defined as (a)
restarting the engine in flight to get another bite at the apple and
(b) flying far away from home for a start. *Arguably, a long tow fits
the (b) condition, but the the fit is not very good; the pure glider
still has to get back on its own, and any glider can take a long tow.

the rule 4.5 does not explicitely mention tow flight, neither in the
English or German version:

(German version)
4.5 Startkreis

Vor dem Sprintabflugpunkt muss der antriebslose Flug in einem Zylinder
mit 15km Radius um den Startplatz beginnen beziehungsweise diesen kreuzen..
..........

(English version)
4.5 Start Circle

Before the sprint departure point, the powerless flight must begin
within, or pass through, a cylinder with a radius of 15km centered on
the take-off airfield.
...........

So the wording "antriebsloser Flug" can be translated as "powerless
flight", or "flight without propulsion". Common sense would include both
aerotow and selfpowered flights, I guess.
--
Peter Scholz
ASW24 JE- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We can already see from the link Greg provided http://tinyurl.com/26fkt4d
that it applies to tows as well, as many non motorglider flights that
days received 1km/h speed. And this not only show in the OLC league
but also under Speed-OLC. I am aware of few clubs who used the Speed-
OLC score for their own league, which will no longer be possible.

Ramy

I'm not thrilled about the OLC changes; but I have a question: How
much does the SSA (or do USA pilots) contribute to running the OLC -
in terms of $$ or equipment?

If its funded primarily by the Germans then we're kind of stuck with
their rules, since we're partying on their system. We may not like
it, but its not "ours", so we can't control it or expect the owners to
necessarily accommodate our wishes. :-/

--Noel
P.S. I know that some of us have made donations to the OLC. However,
$5 donations by a couple-hundred US pilots do not count much towards
the operating costs of the whole OLC system; especially given the
exchange rate the last couple of years!