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#11
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Well, its in Subpart B Flight Rules. I presumed that must mean ifr
too. Also, 91.117 Aircraft speed is in same subpart. If it didn't apply to ifr, then 250 kts below 10, 000 feet wouldnt either, no? Stan On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:13:33 GMT, wrote: Well, that is not in the IFR section of Part 91..... |
#13
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John Clonts wrote: What if I'm cleared to the fix but *want* to fly the departure procedure, which takes me to the fix after some turns? Seems like I remember someone quoting (I think from the ATC handbook) something like "... compliance with a published departure procedure is at the discretion of the pilot...". Where does that fit into this? It is at your discretion. The original poster asked if he had to fly a DP on a good weather day when ATC says preoceed direct and the DP goes out of the way. The answer is go direct. Terrain clearance is a nonfactor. |
#14
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pstanley55 wrote:
I was always under the assumption that if my atc clearance received on the ground was direct to a fix, I was free to forgo the departure procedure and do an immediate turn after takeoff. I note that FAR 91.129, Operations in class D airspace states that: "(g) Departures. No person may operate an aircraft departing from an airport except in compliance with the following: (1) Each pilot must comply with any departure procedures established for that airport by the FAA." So how, on a good weather delay, can one avoid flying the departure procedure? Note the word "established" vice "assigned" I use "Norcal Departure, Cherokee 123, requesting a turn to heading 100, we can maintain our own terrain seperation." Works everytime - they get me on my way, and I get out of their airspace quicker. This is especially useful when flying to Monterey and both San Jose and Monterey are socked in, but clear between. ATC gives you "climb and maintain 7000" when only 3000' is required (if you know where the tower is). In this case I say "I'd like to maintain 4000' - I'll maintain our own terrain seperation". Hilton |
#15
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Hilton wrote: I use "Norcal Departure, Cherokee 123, requesting a turn to heading 100, we can maintain our own terrain seperation." Works everytime - they get me on my way, and I get out of their airspace quicker. This is especially useful when flying to Monterey and both San Jose and Monterey are socked in, but clear between. ATC gives you "climb and maintain 7000" when only 3000' is required (if you know where the tower is). In this case I say "I'd like to maintain 4000' - I'll maintain our own terrain seperation". Hilton That's all good except they can't clear you to maintain 4,000' in an area where their MVA is higher. They can clear you to climb VFR to maintain their MVA, or higher. |
#16
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wrote: Well, its in Subpart B Flight Rules. I presumed that must mean ifr too. Also, 91.117 Aircraft speed is in same subpart. If it didn't apply to ifr, then 250 kts below 10, 000 feet wouldnt either, no? Stan On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:13:33 GMT, wrote: Well, that is not in the IFR section of Part 91..... "Departure Procedure" has a specific meaning for IFR operations. Speed limit requirements do not. |
#17
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I sent the previous post without including the following: If your reading is correct then a student pilot would have to fly the IFR departure procedure departing a Class D airport since it doesn't say anything about pertaining just to IFR operations. ;-) |
#18
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#19
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Yes, now I see how to interpret the FAR. 129, besides stating
pilot must comply with any departure procedure, also in the next sentence states applicable distance from clouds criteria need to be followed. Clearly they are refering to vfr then. Which brings up an interesting question. I use jepps, and perusing through many airports (Mass for eg, Bedford, Boston, Hyannis, Nantucket, lawrence, beverly, etc) I don't see *ANY* FAA departure procedures (other than ifr). Should I be perusing some other sources? Where does one find departure procedures listed? thanks, Stan On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:13:33 GMT, wrote: wrote: OK, I see what you mean, and I'll take your word for it. But the FAR does state "departure procedure", and the ifr departure procedure would thus seem to be included as a "departure procedure". The FAR should be re worded! Well, that is not in the IFR section of Part 91, and it applies only to departures at airports with operating control towers. It's basically a noise rule. As to the regulation not making that clear, some of those regs are written without regard to another meaning for a term. Plus, there is a legal interpretation that muddies it even further. |
#20
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OK, you're right
Stan On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 16:52:17 GMT, wrote: I sent the previous post without including the following: If your reading is correct then a student pilot would have to fly the IFR departure procedure departing a Class D airport since it doesn't say anything about pertaining just to IFR operations. ;-) |
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