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#41
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Outside reference in IMC
On May 21, 12:11*am, romeomike wrote:
wrote: Could it have been a situation where you got authorization for VFR-on-top to do some air work? Of course in that case you would not have been just 50 feet above the cloud layer because you would have had to comply with VFR cloud clearances. No, I wished at that time because I was whipped after that lesson! As you suspected, it was airwork, but it was a local IFR clearance. This was my second time in IMC, and before doing actual approaches in IMC for the first time, he had me do some basic airwork in the practice area. We had ask for a block altitude from 2000 to 4000 feet and he had me do climbing turns and such. We topped out at about 2500 feet or so, so he made me dip back down to 2000. Needless to say, only one minute climbing turns. :-) I love that trick he showed me about picking up local IFR clearances. I call CD at my airport, and ask for local IFR clearance to do my IFR currency. I don't file any flight plans to touch a cloud and no fuss no muss. It always helps to have really good controllers willing to work with me that we do have at KJAN as well, so the system really does work. |
#42
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Outside reference in IMC
Yup, ya cannot teach an old dog new tricks... It is still, and will
remain, a DG and an AH when it comes from me... Definitions are easy... Dunno what all the fuss is about... Some of you guys could make the act of taking a breath into a 20 page thesis... IMC is clearly defined in the regs... All you have to do is look at the DUATS or whatever and it will tell you if the conditions are IMC... VMC is also clearly defined... Any beginning flight student can rattle off the visibility and ceiling conditions that constitute VMC, both for the airport traffic area and for outside of there... If it ain't VMC, then it is IMC - period... IFR time is logged when I am filed and on an instrument flight plan... Whether I can or cannot see the horizon is meaningless... If I am not filed on an instrument flight plan, then no IFR time is logged, regardless of how much I use the DG and AH to keep it upright... And that is it... denny |
#43
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Outside reference in IMC
Marty Shapiro wrote:
VFR over the top (not to be confused with the IFR clearance of VFR on top). Yeah, I know about VFR-on-top, but there you have to maintain VFR clearance of clouds. In the scenario posed by Atlieb, he is cruising 50 feet above a cloud layer, so could not be legally VFR-on-top. |
#44
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Outside reference in IMC
"Denny" wrote
IFR time is logged when I am filed and on an instrument flight plan... Whether I can or cannot see the horizon is meaningless... Here is what the FARs say: (g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions. To me this means that technically you cannot log instrument time if you are using outside references, regardless of the type of flight plan you are on. BDS |
#45
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Outside reference in IMC
On Wed, 21 May 2008 08:28:31 -0600, HARRY POTTER
wrote: B A R R Y wrote: On Tue, 20 May 2008 20:30:20 -0400, "Bob F." wrote: Extra credit points! The statement below is incomplete (hint: qualification is missing). There are lots of places in US airspace where you could be IMC and NOT fly under IFR rules, and no flight plan...where are they? Class G space. Thats what I always thought, until I saw an FAA enforcement letter where they suspended a pilot for launching intoclass G without a clearance. IIRC, he was sitting on the ground awaiting his release from ATC, got tired of waiting, and just took off. No one along the line doubts he did indeed stay inside uncontrolled airspace, but they still violated him. Honestly, my area has very, very little G, usually only sfc-700 or 1200 stuff. That is a strange enforcement, since all of us are taught that we only need clearance before entering controlled space. Are you sure the wasn't under the basic G minimums? |
#46
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Outside reference in IMC
BDS writes:
Here is what the FARs say: (g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions. To me this means that technically you cannot log instrument time if you are using outside references, regardless of the type of flight plan you are on. It also means that you cannot log instrument time if you are depending on physical sensations. That would not be "solely by reference to instruments." |
#47
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Outside reference in IMC
Cruising altitude requirements still apply, and I am not seeing where
any exemption is made for 2000' AGL. But it does seem like traffic has to be only one-way in areas where class G only extends up to 1200'. This is a bit confusing, but perhaps a moot point. On May 21, 3:43 am, Marty Shapiro wrote: Andrew Sarangan wrote : On May 20, 9:11 pm, Marty Shapiro wrote: "Bob F." wrote m: Extra credit points! The statement below is incomplete (hint: qualification is missing). There are lots of places in US airspace where you could be IMC and NOT fly under IFR rules, and no flight plan...where are they? Glass G airspace. Lot's of it out west. Even in class G you must still follow all the IFR rules, except you don't need a ATC clearance. All of them? Any FAR which states "when operating is controlled air space" doesn't apply. That still leaves a few, but most of them are gone. Communication with ATC? Not required in G. Flight plan? Not required in G. No need to file or activate. Altitude? Well, yes. But with no ATC communication requirement, you can change it anytime you want. Unless I missed something in a quick scan, 91.179 doesn't address altitudes below 2,000' AGL and over a flat area, such as a desert, you only need to be 1,000' AGL per 91.177. So, the rules on altidude based on direction of flight does not necessarily apply. If they did in G which only goes to 1,200' AGL, all IFR traffic there would be one way. Fuel on board? Well, I guess if you got ramped checked, you should have statutory IFR reserves on departure, but since you're not required to have a flight plan in G, what would be used to determine if you met IFR reserves? Malfunctions? No report required in G. Instrument currency? Absolutely must have. No exceptions for class G! SFAR 97 only applies to published routes, which are at least class E. So, although it would be very stupid to do so, you can fly IFR in class G airspace and not follow most of the IFR rules. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#48
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Outside reference in IMC
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#49
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Outside reference in IMC
"Mxsmanic" wrote It also means that you cannot log instrument time if you are depending on physical sensations. That would not be "solely by reference to instruments." Who here has ever claimed to fly in IMC while depending (your word) on physical sensations? BDS |
#50
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Outside reference in IMC
HARRY POTTER wrote in
: B A R R Y wrote: On Tue, 20 May 2008 20:30:20 -0400, "Bob F." wrote: Extra credit points! The statement below is incomplete (hint: qualification is missing). There are lots of places in US airspace where you could be IMC and NOT fly under IFR rules, and no flight plan...where are they? Class G space. Thats what I always thought, until I saw an FAA enforcement letter where they suspended a pilot for launching intoclass G without a clearance. IIRC, he was sitting on the ground awaiting his release from ATC, got tired of waiting, and just took off. No one along the line doubts he did indeed stay inside uncontrolled airspace, but they still violated him. § 91.13 - Careless or reckless operation. The FAA's gotcha reg. |
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