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#71
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"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message ... On 23 Jun 2004 09:59:41 -0700, (Corrie) wrote: Ron Wanttaja wrote in message . .. It took about forty years from the date the first government-sponsored manned aerospacecraft left the atmosphere and glided down to a safe landing in the California desert to the successful flight of the first private one. If the same timescale was used for conventional airplanes, the first privately-owned aircraft would have flown in 1943. As opposed to 1903? The first airplane WAS privately-owned. Not to mention amateur-built. The government-funded program wound up in the Potomac. ;-) Sure, I know the Wrights were private, it was just a way to make a comparison. Interesting to note that the Wrights attempted to use lawsuits to deter those who wished to duplicate their feat; in retrospect, the desire for the technology overcame the legal issues involved. Ron Wanttaja Well, strictly speaking, they used lawsuits to force other people to pay for profiting from the use of their ideas. They gave permission for the use of their patented system in experimental work. They were perfectly willing to license their technology, but other manufacturers wanted to use it, both for manufacturing airplanes and doing exhibitions, without paying for it. There was a lot of suing, in all directions -- and thus the "patent pool" solution of 1917, when the government wanted to start letting contracts for airplanes without having to worry about who was suing whom. The longest-running suit, which at least had the beneficial side-effect of getting Orville to write and testify about how he and Wilbur developed the airplane, was filed _against_ the Wright-Martin Aircraft Company (owner of the Wright patents and to whom Orville was just a consultant at that point) and the U.S . government by the heirs of John Montgomery. It was filed on the basis of a 1905 patent by Montgomery covering the use of parabolic curves as airfoils. The Wrights didn't use parabolic curves as airfoils, but I guess you can always file a suit. The heirs eventually lost in 1928. Tim Ward |
#72
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#73
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Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:09:46 -0500, Big John wrote: On 23 Jun 2004 04:30:55 GMT, (Regnirps) wrote: I don't know as I'd call Paul Allen and Rutan average joes. I hear they put their pants on one leg at a time. Sure, I bet Paul Allen's valet dresses him one leg at a time, just like mine does. :-) Ron "Off to the Drone's Club!" Wanttaja Missed me! (Dr. Pepper - still in the glass!) |
#74
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B2431 wrote:
Date: 6/23/2004 8:40 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: Matt My computer bombed so this may go as a dup? I have thousands of hours in jet fighters breathing 100% oxy. We had all kinds of electrical stuff in cockpit(s) and aircraft. High power Radar, Radio's, etc., etc. . Big John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:28:37 -0400, Matt Whiting wrote: Richard Lamb wrote: In the aftermath of the Apollo 1 fire, NASA took a year (and $75 mil) to redesign the space craft, mature their mental attitudes, and yes, did come back with a much safer vehicle. Yes, but I still wonder how anyone in their right might would use a nearly pure oxygen atmosphere in a vehicle full of humans and electrical equipment... Matt The difference is Apollo 1 was flooded with pure O2 where jet fighters push O2 from a LOX converter to a face mask. Big difference. The only electronics in the mask is a microphone. Having said that the electrical systems in Apollo 1 were poorly routed and protected. It was an accident waiting to happen. Dan. U.S. Air Force, retired Aaaaaaaaand, pure O2 pressurized at 15 PSI... That's called a (low pressure) fuel air bomb these days. |
#75
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Thanks for the note, Ron.
"Angle of Attack" is next on the list. This is the first reference I've seen to a likely probably cause (open connector) of the Apollo One fire. Changing subjects abruptly... I haven't seen all of "From the Earth to the Moon" episodes, but I throughly enjoyed the one about the LEM. That little monster fascinates me. Any obsessive compulsive engineers dreamiest nightmare. So delicate it was not possible to even stand in it (on Earth) without dammaging it. Probably the scariest machine ever flown... But it never failed. Just plain awesome work. Richard |
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"Richard Lamb" wrote in message ... Thanks for the note, Ron. "Angle of Attack" is next on the list. This is the first reference I've seen to a likely probably cause (open connector) of the Apollo One fire. Changing subjects abruptly... I haven't seen all of "From the Earth to the Moon" episodes, but I throughly enjoyed the one about the LEM. Yup. I love it when the camera pulls back and there's all those pink balls on the roof. They are (or were) available as a boxed set of VHS tapes. My wife bought them for me, I've watched them all several times. They are _all_ very good. Highly recommended. Tim Ward |
#78
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Big John wrote:
Matt My computer bombed so this may go as a dup? I have thousands of hours in jet fighters breathing 100% oxy. We had all kinds of electrical stuff in cockpit(s) and aircraft. High power Radar, Radio's, etc., etc. They filled the entire cockpit area with pure oxygen? I've never heard oa a fighter aircraft designed that way. Which model are you talking about? Matt |
#79
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B2431 wrote:
Date: 6/23/2004 8:40 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: Matt My computer bombed so this may go as a dup? I have thousands of hours in jet fighters breathing 100% oxy. We had all kinds of electrical stuff in cockpit(s) and aircraft. High power Radar, Radio's, etc., etc. . Big John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:28:37 -0400, Matt Whiting wrote: Richard Lamb wrote: In the aftermath of the Apollo 1 fire, NASA took a year (and $75 mil) to redesign the space craft, mature their mental attitudes, and yes, did come back with a much safer vehicle. Yes, but I still wonder how anyone in their right might would use a nearly pure oxygen atmosphere in a vehicle full of humans and electrical equipment... Matt The difference is Apollo 1 was flooded with pure O2 where jet fighters push O2 from a LOX converter to a face mask. Big difference. The only electronics in the mask is a microphone. Having said that the electrical systems in Apollo 1 were poorly routed and protected. It was an accident waiting to happen. Even without the poor electrical system design, a static discharge could have started a fire. Having a pure oxygen environment was simply stupid and the risk far outweighed the benefits. Matt |
#80
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On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:59:00 -0700, "Tim Ward"
wrote: I haven't seen all of "From the Earth to the Moon" episodes, but I throughly enjoyed the one about the LEM. Yup. I love it when the camera pulls back and there's all those pink balls on the roof. They are (or were) available as a boxed set of VHS tapes. My wife bought them for me, I've watched them all several times. They are _all_ very good. Highly recommended. My in-laws bought the DVD set for me about three years back, and I've watched 'em through at least twice already...and started a third after reading _Angle of Attack_. When you own the set, you can't just watch one episode. "Spider," the one about the LEM, is my absolute favorite. It illustrates, better than anything I could say, what it's like to work in the industry when you get a living, breathing, metal-cutting spacecraft program. When they showed the sequence where the Program Manager watches the crane carry off his 'baby' to be shipped away, it looked like he was damn near crying. Just like I was when I said goodbye to one of my 'babies.' This was in a clean room atop the launch tower, and they were closing out the payload fairing. I signed the clipboard (I was the company rep), then walked away and punched the button for the elevator. The ride down was a bit rough. Had more fun several months earlier, when we were getting ready to ship it from the factory. This was early in the digital photography days, and our program had a Mk 1 digital...cost $10,000, and had all of a 1 MB array. Pretty hot stuff at the time, though. Anyway, with a sideline of (film) photography and a love for goofy hardware, I had ended up with a sideline of being the program photographer. On the day before the unit was to be encapsulated, we Team Leaders decided to get our pictures taken next to the hardware. So we trooped to the clean room and put on our bunny suits, booties, and mobcaps. I hauled in the digital camera and tripod. We picked the best spot, and selected where we were going to stand. Then I ran into trouble. I'd taken tons of pictures with that digital, but had never used the self-timer function. As far as I could tell, the darn thing had only a five-second delay. Not enough for me to join my fellow team leaders for the group shot. No one else around; and it would take fifteen minutes to get someone into the room due to the suit-up and pre-cleaning procedure. So I shot a couple of the rest of the crew, then told them to wait a moment. I triggered the timer, ran towards the group, and at the mental count of four I jumped into the air and clicked my heels. Turned out pretty good. Got my best side, even. I got my own picture taken with it by one of the other guys. There was an interesting post-script, though. When I downloaded the pictures, I found that I had set myself up so that a certain wall poster was in the background. It was a full-size portrait of a science fiction character. So there I stand, next to the hardware, in bunny suit and mobcap, with Captain Jean-Luc Picard looking disdainfully over my shoulder.... Ron Wanttaja |
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