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#41
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On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:01:36 -0600, "Michael 182"
wrote in :: I thought you had to have a navigation aid in your suffix to file direct - like /G or /R. Aren't you setting yourself up for a problem filing /A and direct? You can go direct via dead reckoning with /A. |
#42
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Maule Driver wrote:
I would say that is increasingly a NE issue. In the SE boonies (south of the Wash ADIZ), once they see /G, they tend to clear you direct *independent* of your plan. In FL my experience is that you will be initially cleared on airways then either thru request or offer, you can get direct for many portions. Leave the busier FL airspace and it's "cleared direct destination". I guess it's fewer words to say or something. Amazing! It probably has more to do with traffic count per square mile (and therefore workload), which is almost always lower in places other than the northeast. Getting direct may also have something to do with getting lucky, no matter where you fly. Don Brown indicates that one of the chief reasons they hate pilots who file direct (even out in the boonies where radio calls are made every 100 miles) is that if a direct courseline quickly crosses or nears several sector boundaries (which can happen in both the horizontal or vertical planes), they have to do tons of point outs and (lacking successful communication with the neighboring controllers) radar vectors, reroutes, and other hand-holding that would not have been necessary had the pilot filed airways and avoided those trouble-spots in the first place. That said, on my way down the coast from New Jersey to Florida a couple weeks ago, I was about 10 miles south of my second departure point (Newport News, VA) when I was cleared to my destination (N. Myrtle Beach, Grand Strand) 225NM out -- a personal direct-to distance record under IFR. Of course, V1 is almost a straight line between the two airports and more or less equivalent to a direct-to route (thus I was getting lucky) but in general I agree with you that you are certainly more likely to get direct in places OTHER than the northeast. -Doug -------------------- Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA http://www.dvcfi.com -------------------- |
#43
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"Michael 182" wrote I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan, I note that in your very first line you've attempted to establish your premise that flight plans are for the novice or the inept. Not so. I have many friends with 20K plus hours who fully comprehend the value of a plan. If you're motoring about with XX hundred or XX thousand in the book, and sincerely believe that flight plans are for kids, perhaps you are the one who needs to reevaluate your thought process. |
#44
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"John Gaquin" wrote in message ... "Michael 182" wrote I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan, I note that in your very first line you've attempted to establish your premise that flight plans are for the novice or the inept. Not so. I have many friends with 20K plus hours who fully comprehend the value of a plan. If you're motoring about with XX hundred or XX thousand in the book, and sincerely believe that flight plans are for kids, perhaps you are the one who needs to reevaluate your thought process. Hmmm - I think I write the OP poorly. I file flight plans for almost every cross country since I fly IFR most of the time. What I was wondering about was the form of flight planning, which many posts have answered in this thread. Michael |
#45
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"Michael 182" wrote in message
... Hmm - maybe this is some of the difference. I don't fly through canyons. In fact, I usually fly between 15,000 feet and FL 200. [...] Frankly, if it weren't for your already reasonable reputation around here, it's at this point that I'd accuse you of being a troll. So far, practically every aspect of your argument against flight planning relies on equipment that is simply not available to most pilots, 100 hour or not. You're flying with an IFR certified GPS receiver in the oxygen levels, and that seems to be the core justification behind your failure to do detailed flight planning. Yet, your original post clearly implies that the difference between a person who spends time flight planning and one who does not is simply pilot time. Well, you sure stirred things up good. You deserve the benefit of the doubt, and I'll assume it wasn't intentional. But you could not possibly have lead off with a more misleading question if you'd done it on purpose. Pete |
#46
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#47
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On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:00:38 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote: As I see it, the main idea of flight planning is to reduce the workload in the cockpit. So, for any long XC or a trip to a new location, I plan the heck out of it. And of course that's a way to increase the pleasure you take in the trip. I pay $75 an hour for the Cub. The flight planning (and anticipation) are like having an extra hour free. -- all the best, Dan Ford email (put Cubdriver in subject line) Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com the blog: www.danford.net In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com |
#48
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Michael 182 wrote:
Yeah - I always call as well. The briefings have changed my route, advised me on TFRs or given me cause not to go at all (usually ice) many times. I hate to think we may lose this service to computers someday. I really appreciate good briefers. For sure. When I was a student working on my PLL, and I'd call fora briefing, the guys I talked with around here were extremely helpful, patient, and informative. That would be gone with computerization. -- Saville Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments: http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat: http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm Steambending FAQ with photos: http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm |
#49
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Maybe ATC in the SE Atlantic seaboard have somehow 'broken the code' on
handling direct. I swear that your experience with direct to N Myrtle is becoming the norm rather than the exception. Between the Wash ADIZ and Jacksonville I've been filing airways and getting cleared direct without requesting it. And I'm filing the airways to avoid SUAs that clog the airspace. The interesting part is that for someone like me flying at 9 or below, flights typically involve center and multiple approaches with constant switching. And yet I'm getting cleared direct 3 or 4 handoffs out from my destination. Who knows, it may be particular to the routes. I don't know who Doug Brown is but I'm going to continue to be pretty aggressive in filing and/or requesting direct where I consider it a reasonable request. And I expect to get it more often than not outside of those areas where it just isn't doable (ADIZ, Phille/NY corridor, FL ooastal routes). It's working better than one might expect in my experience. I'll have to get out more.... Doug Vetter wrote: Maule Driver wrote: I would say that is increasingly a NE issue. In the SE boonies (south of the Wash ADIZ), once they see /G, they tend to clear you direct *independent* of your plan. In FL my experience is that you will be initially cleared on airways then either thru request or offer, you can get direct for many portions. Leave the busier FL airspace and it's "cleared direct destination". I guess it's fewer words to say or something. Amazing! It probably has more to do with traffic count per square mile (and therefore workload), which is almost always lower in places other than the northeast. Getting direct may also have something to do with getting lucky, no matter where you fly. Don Brown indicates that one of the chief reasons they hate pilots who file direct (even out in the boonies where radio calls are made every 100 miles) is that if a direct courseline quickly crosses or nears several sector boundaries (which can happen in both the horizontal or vertical planes), they have to do tons of point outs and (lacking successful communication with the neighboring controllers) radar vectors, reroutes, and other hand-holding that would not have been necessary had the pilot filed airways and avoided those trouble-spots in the first place. That said, on my way down the coast from New Jersey to Florida a couple weeks ago, I was about 10 miles south of my second departure point (Newport News, VA) when I was cleared to my destination (N. Myrtle Beach, Grand Strand) 225NM out -- a personal direct-to distance record under IFR. Of course, V1 is almost a straight line between the two airports and more or less equivalent to a direct-to route (thus I was getting lucky) but in general I agree with you that you are certainly more likely to get direct in places OTHER than the northeast. -Doug -------------------- Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA http://www.dvcfi.com -------------------- |
#50
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AMEN.
I like to think "Whatever floats your boat" when I hear folks talk about turning off the GPS so as to avoid using it as a crutch. I'm 100% on my GPS and only track VORs when IMC. I do keep track of where I am on the map (I tend to use WACs for my 'cleared direct' sojourns) Purists? After getting my SEL and slogging thru all that VOR work, I flew sailplanes CC for 15+ years. The first 3-5 years were pure pilotage. Dead recon doesn't work when you are circling and chasing lift but you do learn to back up your pilotage with it even in those conditions. I've been sooo lost, sooo many times, and sooo paid the price that I became pretty proficient at seat-o-pants chart based, low level, engine-less pilotage. My character was strengthened as earned confidence grew..... Then came GPS. Due to a quirk in sailplane racing rules, VORs and such were illegal but GPS was legal as soon as it came over the horizon. Early first generation GPS technology was immediately incorporated into panel mounted glide computers and those carbon fiber, laminar flow beauties once again got out ahead of the rest of GA. What was notable was how few pilots fully utilized the new tech. Most competitors had it onboard (Honey, did Foxtrot Uniform leave the chart in the car?) but just never learned to use it fully. Purists I guess but it seemeed slow to me. This "turn off the GPS" stuff seems slow to me now too as I sit in my retrograde Maule wishing I had an autopilot. Greg Farris wrote: I think Michael (or anyone else) is justified in placing his trust in the on-board wizardry. The old "what if it fails" argument is wearing thin these days, what with so much redundancy. With a panel GPS, and a handheld, a vor/dme, another Vor, Adf - and I'm just talking about an entry-level skyhawk here - your chances of screwing up are far less than using pilotage, mistaking one small town for a different one, then landing at the wrong airport . . . If you want to go "purist", and turn off the GPS in fair weather, that's great too. Personally, I have a log and map and waypoints to check, and I feel more prepared - but I honestly have trouble imagining a scenario where that preparation would make the difference between getting there or not. The plane's nav equipment is far more precise and reliable. How purist do you want to go? I fly in the US and in Europe. There, they teach you to calculate wind correction (speed and drift) in your head. It's fun to do - and surprisingly accurate - but in practical terms, it's "playing games" compared with the navigational information available to every pilot today. Greg |
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