"Where" is my destination?

Leaving OAK I called ground and asked for flight following to 7S3
(which I gave by name and spelled phonetically). Later, while I'm
taxiing they come back with "where is that" and I couldn't imagine
how I could help them if the identifier didn't, so I came up with
"near McMinnville", which is both a nearby airport and the name of
the FSS. There was a pause and they came back with "we would call
that 'Oregon'" and gave me a squawk.

On climbout with Norcal approach and later Oakland center my destination
came up at least once with each controller. One thought it was MMV.
One of them accepted 7S3 without argument and asked for my route of
flight, which I gave as "direct Maxwell VOR and then airways" which
started a new round of "what's the closest navaid to your destination"
and I offered to amend my destination to HIO. She explained that she
just needed to know if she should hand me off (to Travis AFB?). I think
my destination finally "stuck" then because it didn't come up again.

So, "where" IS my destination? Is there anything I could have said
that would have made it clear? Would they be confused if I just asked
for flight following to the Newberg VOR?

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

Not an answer to your question, but if you were flying
over the Central Valley yesterday you were lucky to
get anything at all. There seemed to be a big radar outage,
maybe centered on Stockton, but affecting both Norcal
and Oakland. They weren't taking any VFR following.
It was very interesting listening to the carriers following
non-radar procedures. It's clear that I'm not the only one
who's a bit hazy about them!

John

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
news:SAbjc.42018$_L6.2563007@attbi_s53...
Leaving OAK I called ground and asked for flight following to 7S3
(which I gave by name and spelled phonetically). Later, while I'm
taxiing they come back with "where is that" and I couldn't imagine
how I could help them if the identifier didn't, so I came up with
"near McMinnville", which is both a nearby airport and the name of
the FSS. There was a pause and they came back with "we would call
that 'Oregon'" and gave me a squawk.

On climbout with Norcal approach and later Oakland center my destination
came up at least once with each controller. One thought it was MMV.
One of them accepted 7S3 without argument and asked for my route of
flight, which I gave as "direct Maxwell VOR and then airways" which
started a new round of "what's the closest navaid to your destination"
and I offered to amend my destination to HIO. She explained that she
just needed to know if she should hand me off (to Travis AFB?). I think
my destination finally "stuck" then because it didn't come up again.

So, "where" IS my destination? Is there anything I could have said
that would have made it clear? Would they be confused if I just asked
for flight following to the Newberg VOR?

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
news:SAbjc.42018$_L6.2563007@attbi_s53...

Leaving OAK I called ground and asked for flight following to 7S3
(which I gave by name and spelled phonetically). Later, while I'm
taxiing they come back with "where is that" and I couldn't imagine
how I could help them if the identifier didn't, so I came up with
"near McMinnville", which is both a nearby airport and the name of
the FSS. There was a pause and they came back with "we would call
that 'Oregon'" and gave me a squawk.

On climbout with Norcal approach and later Oakland center my destination
came up at least once with each controller. One thought it was MMV.
One of them accepted 7S3 without argument and asked for my route of
flight, which I gave as "direct Maxwell VOR and then airways" which
started a new round of "what's the closest navaid to your destination"
and I offered to amend my destination to HIO. She explained that she
just needed to know if she should hand me off (to Travis AFB?). I think
my destination finally "stuck" then because it didn't come up again.

So, "where" IS my destination? Is there anything I could have said
that would have made it clear? Would they be confused if I just asked
for flight following to the Newberg VOR?


Telling them your planned route would have made it clear. You say it was
"direct Maxwell VOR and then airways". That doesn't tell then a great deal.
State the airways and navaids.

I would be surprised if Oakland Center's host computer has 7S3 in its
memory, and wouldn't expect OAK ground control to have a clue. In your
situation I think I would have used Portland as a destination and then
changed my destination to 7S3 by name somewhere north of Eugene. Had you
filed, a lat-long for 7S3 would have eliminated the problem entirely.

Bob Gardner

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
news:SAbjc.42018$_L6.2563007@attbi_s53...
Leaving OAK I called ground and asked for flight following to 7S3
(which I gave by name and spelled phonetically). Later, while I'm
taxiing they come back with "where is that" and I couldn't imagine
how I could help them if the identifier didn't, so I came up with
"near McMinnville", which is both a nearby airport and the name of
the FSS. There was a pause and they came back with "we would call
that 'Oregon'" and gave me a squawk.

On climbout with Norcal approach and later Oakland center my destination
came up at least once with each controller. One thought it was MMV.
One of them accepted 7S3 without argument and asked for my route of
flight, which I gave as "direct Maxwell VOR and then airways" which
started a new round of "what's the closest navaid to your destination"
and I offered to amend my destination to HIO. She explained that she
just needed to know if she should hand me off (to Travis AFB?). I think
my destination finally "stuck" then because it didn't come up again.

So, "where" IS my destination? Is there anything I could have said
that would have made it clear? Would they be confused if I just asked
for flight following to the Newberg VOR?

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

I don't know the area, and I'm no expert, but I would have said, "About 7
miles south of Portland-Hillsboro in Oregon". Generally the ATCs know
towered airports out a ways, and Portland is a big enough name that even
in Oakland they would have recognized at least where to start looking.

I'm on the east coast, but generally if I'm asking for Flight Following
here in NY, and I'm crossing a state line or two, I will tell them what
state my destination is from the initial request...

That might have been why the first guy got snippy with you - he's
watching a sector in CA, and you're expecting him to know the names of
all of the teeny little airports in a 500 mile circle... And not even
telling him what state he's supposed to be looking at...

(Ben Jackson) wrote in
news:SAbjc.42018$_L6.2563007@attbi_s53:

Leaving OAK I called ground and asked for flight following to 7S3
(which I gave by name and spelled phonetically). Later, while I'm
taxiing they come back with "where is that" and I couldn't imagine
how I could help them if the identifier didn't, so I came up with
"near McMinnville", which is both a nearby airport and the name of
the FSS. There was a pause and they came back with "we would call
that 'Oregon'" and gave me a squawk.

On climbout with Norcal approach and later Oakland center my
destination came up at least once with each controller. One thought it
was MMV. One of them accepted 7S3 without argument and asked for my
route of flight, which I gave as "direct Maxwell VOR and then airways"
which started a new round of "what's the closest navaid to your
destination" and I offered to amend my destination to HIO. She
explained that she just needed to know if she should hand me off (to
Travis AFB?). I think my destination finally "stuck" then because it
didn't come up again.

So, "where" IS my destination? Is there anything I could have said
that would have made it clear? Would they be confused if I just asked
for flight following to the Newberg VOR?

I would be surprised if Oakland Center's host computer has 7S3 in its
memory,

Given that my office PC has 7S3 stored in it (thanks to multiple flight
planning programs) it's hard to imagine anything dumber, in this day and
age.

However, when we were flying home from Sun N Fun, Tallahassee (I think)
approach didn't have "KIOW" in its little brain, so I changed our
destination to "KCID."

They didn't even have THAT airport in its memory -- Cedar Rapids, a Class C
airport with hourly airline service!

I eventually just told them "Muscle Shoals, Alabama," which satisfied them
for a while...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ysdjc.42186$IW1.2048086@attbi_s52...

Given that my office PC has 7S3 stored in it (thanks to multiple flight
planning programs) it's hard to imagine anything dumber, in this day
and age.


Remember we're talking about the FAA.



However, when we were flying home from Sun N Fun, Tallahassee
(I think) approach didn't have "KIOW" in its little brain, so I
changed our destination to "KCID."

They didn't even have THAT airport in its memory -- Cedar Rapids,
a Class C airport with hourly airline service!


They probably had both in memory, but as IOW and CID. IOW and CID are H
class VORs, I'd expect every ARTCC to have every such VOR in memory.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ysdjc.42186$IW1.2048086@attbi_s52...



Given that my office PC has 7S3 stored in it (thanks to multiple flight
planning programs) it's hard to imagine anything dumber, in this day and
age.

Are you kidding? The entire air trafiic system is being run on a Commodore
64 with 48K of memory. Once you move across center boudaries only the
larger airports are stored.

"Judah" wrote in message
...
I don't know the area, and I'm no expert, but I would have said, "About 7
miles south of Portland-Hillsboro in Oregon".


The real answer is to just tell Oakland you're going to "Portland direct."
They do not need to know the exact destination.

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
So, "where" IS my destination? Is there anything I could have said
that would have made it clear? Would they be confused if I just asked
for flight following to the Newberg VOR?

A fix from a VOR will always work. "Bearing 15 miles on the 180 Radial of
(VOR)."

Just tell 'em to stand by while you figure it up. Doesn't have to be exact.

--
Jim Fisher