SSA responds to ANPRM

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:45:12 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
I have been slogging through the some
220 responses and came across a
response from the NTSB:

http://www.regulations.gov/contentStrea
mer?documentId=FAA-2015-2147-
0137&attachmentNumber=1&disposition
=attachment&contentType=pdf

"our main concern was to ensure that
gliders are detectable by an aircraft
equipped with a traffic alert and collision
avoidance system (TCAS)"

Gliders are already kept well away from
air carriers by Class B and C.

That makes the primary beneficiaries of
the ANPRM private jet owners able to
afford TCAS - $30K to $200K before
installation.

As long as they're transmitting ADS-B,
anybody with PowerFLARM knows
exactly where they are from several miles
away and can avoid.

This can not be further from the truth! Is NTSB really that clueless? Are they assuming that air carriers are immediately in class A when outside of class B/C, or do they assume that gliders only fly in patterns around small airports outside class B/C? Anyone who is flying in Reno area, Las Vegas area, in the Bay Area and any other soaring area within 50 miles of a major airport knows that we sharing the same airspace with airliners, including inside Mode C veil!

Ramy

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:45:12 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
I have been slogging through the some
220 responses and came across a
response from the NTSB:

http://www.regulations.gov/contentStrea
mer?documentId=FAA-2015-2147-
0137&attachmentNumber=1&disposition
=attachment&contentType=pdf

"our main concern was to ensure that
gliders are detectable by an aircraft
equipped with a traffic alert and collision
avoidance system (TCAS)"

Gliders are already kept well away from
air carriers by Class B and C.

That makes the primary beneficiaries of
the ANPRM private jet owners able to
afford TCAS - $30K to $200K before
installation.

As long as they're transmitting ADS-B,
anybody with PowerFLARM knows
exactly where they are from several miles
away and can avoid.

At least some air carriers are not transmitting ADS-B as of this writing. Southwest for example - none of their jets flying into and out of Reno show up on PowerFlarm. Biz jets seem to have a higher install rate than airlines.

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 10:07:01 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:45:12 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
I have been slogging through the some
220 responses and came across a
response from the NTSB:

http://www.regulations.gov/contentStrea
mer?documentId=FAA-2015-2147-
0137&attachmentNumber=1&disposition
=attachment&contentType=pdf

"our main concern was to ensure that
gliders are detectable by an aircraft
equipped with a traffic alert and collision
avoidance system (TCAS)"

Gliders are already kept well away from
air carriers by Class B and C.

That makes the primary beneficiaries of
the ANPRM private jet owners able to
afford TCAS - $30K to $200K before
installation.

As long as they're transmitting ADS-B,
anybody with PowerFLARM knows
exactly where they are from several miles
away and can avoid.

This can not be further from the truth! Is NTSB really that clueless? Are they assuming that air carriers are immediately in class A when outside of class B/C, or do they assume that gliders only fly in patterns around small airports outside class B/C? Anyone who is flying in Reno area, Las Vegas area, in the Bay Area and any other soaring area within 50 miles of a major airport knows that we sharing the same airspace with airliners, including inside Mode C veil!

Ramy

Ramy - the NTSB only said the part in the quotes, the rest of it was the opinion (or mistake) of the poster.

Oops, don't know how I missed the end of the quote. It didn't make sense to me that the NTSB will be so clueless. I am amazed that some glider pilots believe we

On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 03:32:29 +0000, George Haeh wrote:

I have been slogging through the some 220 responses and came across a
response from the NTSB:

http://www.regulations.gov/contentStrea mer?documentId=FAA-2015-2147-
0137&attachmentNumber=1&disposition =attachment&contentType=pdf

"our main concern was to ensure that gliders are detectable by an
aircraft equipped with a traffic alert and collision avoidance system
(TCAS)"

Gliders are already kept well away from air carriers by Class B and C.

That makes the primary beneficiaries of the ANPRM private jet owners
able to afford TCAS - $30K to $200K before installation.

As long as they're transmitting ADS-B, anybody with PowerFLARM knows
exactly where they are from several miles away and can avoid.

You took that one sentence well out of context. With the advent of ADS-
B, the NTSB now believes gliders should also lose their ADS-B exemption.
ADS-B In capability is a whole lot cheaper than TCAS, and will be much
more widely deployed.

As I keep saying, this ANPRM isn't about transponders, it's about
transponders and ADS-B, as should be obvious from the survey questions
they asked. I believe FAA has decided to suck gliders into NextGen, and
are using the (extremely late) letters from Reid and Amodei as
justification. I'm generally in favor of that in principle, but hope we
can get regulations that make it more practical given the constraints of
gliders.

-Dave

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 22:45:18 -0700, jfitch wrote:

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:45:12 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
I have been slogging through the some 220 responses and came across a
response from the NTSB:

http://www.regulations.gov/contentStrea mer?documentId=FAA-2015-2147-
0137&attachmentNumber=1&disposition =attachment&contentType=pdf

"our main concern was to ensure that gliders are detectable by an
aircraft equipped with a traffic alert and collision avoidance system
(TCAS)"

Gliders are already kept well away from air carriers by Class B and C.

That makes the primary beneficiaries of the ANPRM private jet owners
able to afford TCAS - $30K to $200K before installation.

As long as they're transmitting ADS-B, anybody with PowerFLARM knows
exactly where they are from several miles away and can avoid.

At least some air carriers are not transmitting ADS-B as of this
writing. Southwest for example - none of their jets flying into and out
of Reno show up on PowerFlarm. Biz jets seem to have a higher install
rate than airlines.

So SouthWest isn't using their transponders these days?? Hope you report
that to FAA.

On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 4:44:32 PM UTC+3, David Kinsell wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 22:45:18 -0700, jfitch wrote:

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:45:12 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
I have been slogging through the some 220 responses and came across a
response from the NTSB:

http://www.regulations.gov/contentStrea mer?documentId=FAA-2015-2147-
0137&attachmentNumber=1&disposition =attachment&contentType=pdf

"our main concern was to ensure that gliders are detectable by an
aircraft equipped with a traffic alert and collision avoidance system
(TCAS)"

Gliders are already kept well away from air carriers by Class B and C.

That makes the primary beneficiaries of the ANPRM private jet owners
able to afford TCAS - $30K to $200K before installation.

As long as they're transmitting ADS-B, anybody with PowerFLARM knows
exactly where they are from several miles away and can avoid.

At least some air carriers are not transmitting ADS-B as of this
writing. Southwest for example - none of their jets flying into and out
of Reno show up on PowerFlarm. Biz jets seem to have a higher install
rate than airlines.

So SouthWest isn't using their transponders these days?? Hope you report
that to FAA.

They of course have transponders, but only the most recent models of 737 have ADS-B.

Southwest still have quite a lot of -300 and -500 models which I believe will never be fitted with ADS-B. They will be retired by 2020.

The -700 and -800 models will be retrofitted with ADS-B by 2020. Some may have come with it from the factory (-800s?).

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:08:29 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Shouldn't hang and paragliders also have ADSB? ;-)

If a toy helicopter needs too...

FAA?

And skydivers, birds, and especially mountains. People are always flying into that last one.

I have been slogging through the some
220 responses and came across a
response from the NTSB:

http://www.regulations.gov/contentStrea
mer?documentId=FAA-2015-2147-
0137&attachmentNumber=1&disposition
=attachment&contentType=pdf

"our main concern was to ensure that
gliders are detectable by an aircraft
equipped with a traffic alert and collision
avoidance system (TCAS)"

Gliders are already kept well away from
air carriers by Class B and C.

That makes the primary beneficiaries of
the ANPRM private jet owners able to
afford TCAS - $30K to $200K before
installation.

As long as they're transmitting ADS-B,
anybody with PowerFLARM knows
exactly where they are from several miles
away and can avoid.

Here in Canada the air carriers are pretty
much on ADS-B already; so my PF sees
them. Aside from the odd towplane, my
PF has only alerted me to one
transponder target.

I can receive several ADS-B returns on a
single flight.