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IFR use of handheld GPS



 
 
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  #51  
Old May 5th 06, 01:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

In navigator training back when we actually used a sextant, whenever
our mission called for legs using celestial navigation ATC would give
us a celnav clearance. This allowed us much more airspace than a
"direct" clearance as celestial nav was less precise than other methods
of navigation. On missions which required students to use only ded
reckoning, the pilot would also ask ATC for a celnav clearance in order
to have the freedom to manuever (i.e. wander) off the direct line to
the next turnpoint. Thus, when ATC sends you direct to a point, they
expect you to be pretty darn close to staying on the direct course to
that point. If you decide that your going to use a watch and compass
(dr) or pull out a sextant and you wander significantly off that
straight line and stray into restricted airspace--guess who's going to
get violated?

  #52  
Old May 5th 06, 02:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


You are not allowed to use an IFR-certified GPS for en route (domestic
airspace) in a non-radar environment except with the special Alaska
provisions.


Perhaps you meant to say you're not allowed to fly off-airway?

If you really meant what you said, please explain / cite the rule.
  #53  
Old May 5th 06, 02:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


My caution applies primarily in the Western DMA. You are home free in
the middle of the country above 4,000, or so, and 8,000, or so in the
Eastern DMA. In the Western DMA there are airways a whole lot lower
than areas between them.


DMA?
  #54  
Old May 5th 06, 05:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Newps,

By "the book" do you mean 7110.65R?
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/index.htm

I was browsing this online last night and couldn't find the reference,
but that's hardly surprising given that it's the first time I've ever
looked at this tome.

Any chance you could provide a link or reference?

Many thanks,

Tim.

On Thu, 04 May 2006 16:01:11 -0600, Newps wrote:



Tim Auckland wrote:
Newps,

If using a hand-held GPS as a significant IFR navigation tool is
against the spirit of the FARs, surely the FAA could put an end to the
practice very simply by strongly discouraging controllers from issuing
Direct-To clearances to /A and /U aircraft


It's already there, the controller simply needs to read the book.



It doesn't appear to have done so, even though the debate has been
going on since at least 1998.


It's like anything else in the FAA, they don't care until you wreck
something. Then the FAA will buy part or all of your airplane when you sue.


  #55  
Old May 5th 06, 06:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS



Sam Spade wrote:


They is the US taxpayer. I cannot be sued.



You said previously "they don't care until you wreck something." I took
that to mean the FAA, given the context. The taxpayers aren't sued in
any case; it's the government.


Right, it wasn't your money to start with.

  #56  
Old May 5th 06, 06:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS



Tim Auckland wrote:

Newps,

By "the book" do you mean 7110.65R?
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/index.htm

I was browsing this online last night and couldn't find the reference,
but that's hardly surprising given that it's the first time I've ever
looked at this tome.


It's a ridiculous piece of work as you saw. If you could clear anybody
direct an equipment suffix would be unnecessary. It's also a shared
thing. I have my rules, you have yours. You have to be able to fly
what you file. You'd be suprised to find out how many operators file a
direct clearance as a /A or /Q and then say they need a vector. Even
when it is legal because they would be within the service volume.
  #57  
Old May 5th 06, 06:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

You'd be suprised to find out how many operators file a direct clearance as a /A or /Q and then say they need a vector.

Well, one reason for that (at least on the East coast) is that it
doesn't really matter what you file, you will get something different.
So why bother figuring out a routing you won't use anyway.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #58  
Old May 5th 06, 07:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS



Jose wrote:
You'd be suprised to find out how many operators file a direct
clearance as a /A or /Q and then say they need a vector.



Well, one reason for that (at least on the East coast) is that it
doesn't really matter what you file, you will get something different.
So why bother figuring out a routing you won't use anyway.



NORDO
  #59  
Old May 5th 06, 07:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Well, one reason for that (at least on the East coast) is that it doesn't really matter what you file, you will get something different. So why bother figuring out a routing you won't use anyway.
NORDO


That's not a reason. You will get a clearance, and you need to reject a
clearance you can't fly. But figuring out a route you won't get doesn't
address the route you -do- get.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #60  
Old May 6th 06, 12:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Dave Butler wrote:

My caution applies primarily in the Western DMA. You are home free in
the middle of the country above 4,000, or so, and 8,000, or so in the
Eastern DMA. In the Western DMA there are airways a whole lot lower
than areas between them.



DMA?


Designated Mountainous Area
 




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