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#1
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F-22 Comparison
Data: F-22 Eurofighter Su-35
Raptor Typhoon Superflanker Crew: 1 1 1 Engine: 2 P&W 2 Eurojet 2 Saturn F-119 EJ200 AL-35F 35,000 20,250 28,218 lb each lb each lb each Max Speed: Mach 1.70 Mach 2.0 Mach 2.35 Gun: 20mm GE 27mm Mauser 30mm GSh-30 M61A1 BK 27 linkless ---- Internal: 3 bays: N/A N/A 4 Sidewinder ---- ---- 4 AIM-120A/ ---- ---- 6 AIM-120C/ ---- ---- GBU-32 JDAM ---- ---- External: 4 hardpoints 13 hardpoints 12 hardpoints 5000 lb ord. ARM,ASRAAM,IRIS-T * 6 different AAMs or fuel METEOR,STORM SHADOW, * 6 different ASMs Features: Stealth (RAM KEPD350,ALARM,GBU-10/12 * various IR/LG/TVG + serrated 80% CF construction bombs edges) * future anti-radar pod * anti-radiation Supercruise: Yes Yes No Radar: APG-77 CAPTOR Doppler Zhuk-PH+ rear NO12 Systems: HUD+ 4 LCDs Wide angle HUD HUD+ 3 LCDs sidestick VTAS (Voice, Throttle, IRST triplex FBW Stick) Helmet-mounted sight Helmet-mounted sight quadraplex FBW IRST ECM pods DASS ESM Pods quadraplex FBW *future FBL Initial Order: 295 Units 148 Units None placed |
#2
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"robert arndt" wrote in message om... Data: F-22 Eurofighter Su-35 Raptor Typhoon Superflanker Crew: 1 1 1 Engine: 2 P&W 2 Eurojet 2 Saturn F-119 EJ200 AL-35F 35,000 20,250 28,218 lb each lb each lb each Max Speed: Mach 1.70 Mach 2.0 Mach 2.35 Gun: 20mm GE 27mm Mauser 30mm GSh-30 M61A1 BK 27 linkless ---- Internal: 3 bays: N/A N/A 4 Sidewinder ---- ---- 4 AIM-120A/ ---- ---- 6 AIM-120C/ ---- ---- GBU-32 JDAM ---- ---- External: 4 hardpoints 13 hardpoints 12 hardpoints 5000 lb ord. ARM,ASRAAM,IRIS-T * 6 different AAMs or fuel METEOR,STORM SHADOW, * 6 different ASMs Features: Stealth (RAM KEPD350,ALARM,GBU-10/12 * various IR/LG/TVG + serrated 80% CF construction bombs edges) * future anti-radar pod * anti-radiation Supercruise: Yes Yes No Radar: APG-77 CAPTOR Doppler Zhuk-PH+ rear NO12 Systems: HUD+ 4 LCDs Wide angle HUD HUD+ 3 LCDs sidestick VTAS (Voice, Throttle, IRST triplex FBW Stick) Helmet-mounted sight Helmet-mounted sight quadraplex FBW IRST ECM pods DASS ESM Pods quadraplex FBW *future FBL Initial Order: 295 Units 148 Units None placed That's a nice summary. You missed the Intraflight Datalinks (IDL) for the F-22. That plays a big role in the F-22 CONOPS. Does Typhoon have that facility? I know Grypen does. Comparison of tankage would be helpful both internal and with external tanks. |
#3
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Supercruise: Yes Yes No Radar: APG-77 CAPTOR Doppler Zhuk-PH+ rear NO12 Systems: HUD+ 4 LCDs Wide angle HUD HUD+ 3 LCDs sidestick VTAS (Voice, Throttle, IRST triplex FBW Stick) Helmet-mounted sight Helmet-mounted sight quadraplex FBW IRST ECM pods DASS ESM Pods quadraplex FBW *future FBL Initial Order: 295 Units 148 Units None placed That's a nice summary. You missed the Intraflight Datalinks (IDL) for the F-22. He also seems to have left out the ESM system which is quite elaborate in the F-22. It can take an AMRAAM shot with it without even using it's main radar. Also he was incorrect on the F-22's speed. The mach 1.7 he lists in in dry thrust and it wasn't even max military power. Paul Metz stated on a Discovery special that the maximum speed of the F-22 is classified but that it will go Mach 2.5. To quote him ". . ..it's fast, I mean it's REALLY fast. It's top speed is classifed but it will do Mach 2.5" This suggests that the top speed in afterburner is over Mach 2.5. Paul Metz is the chief test pilot of the F-22 program. That plays a big role in the F-22 CONOPS. Does Typhoon have that facility? I know Grypen does. Comparison of tankage would be helpful both internal and with external tanks. I have no idea on the Typhoon. The Flanker's is somewhere between 19k and 20k internal. I don't know what it can carry external. I don't recall ever seeing one with external tanks. The F-22 at first was said to have 23,000 internal but then later I saw that it was something like 18,700lbs. Add the roughly 20,000lbs of four 600 gallon tanks and you get 38,700lb of fuel. Roughly double the Flanker's fuel load. For comparison an F-15E (or I I guess too) has something like 13,500 internal, 10k in the conformal tanks and 15k more in three 600 gallon tanks for a total of about 38,500lbs. Six different kinds of AAMs on the Flanker? What is that, the AA-10, AA-11, AA-12 and what AA-8? What are the other 2? R-37 was cancelled, That air to air Krypton looking thing is a paper design AFAIK and the AAA-AE or whatever that two stage long range missile was has never entered service either. |
#4
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"Paul F Austin" wrote in message ... "robert arndt" wrote in message om... Data: F-22 Eurofighter Su-35 Raptor Typhoon Superflanker Crew: 1 1 1 Engine: 2 P&W 2 Eurojet 2 Saturn F-119 EJ200 AL-35F 35,000 20,250 28,218 lb each lb each lb each Max Speed: Mach 1.70 Mach 2.0 Mach 2.35 Gun: 20mm GE 27mm Mauser 30mm GSh-30 M61A1 BK 27 linkless ---- Internal: 3 bays: N/A N/A 4 Sidewinder ---- ---- 4 AIM-120A/ ---- ---- 6 AIM-120C/ ---- ---- GBU-32 JDAM ---- ---- External: 4 hardpoints 13 hardpoints 12 hardpoints 5000 lb ord. ARM,ASRAAM,IRIS-T * 6 different AAMs or fuel METEOR,STORM SHADOW, * 6 different ASMs Features: Stealth (RAM KEPD350,ALARM,GBU-10/12 * various IR/LG/TVG + serrated 80% CF construction bombs edges) * future anti-radar pod * anti-radiation Supercruise: Yes Yes No Radar: APG-77 CAPTOR Doppler Zhuk-PH+ rear NO12 Systems: HUD+ 4 LCDs Wide angle HUD HUD+ 3 LCDs sidestick VTAS (Voice, Throttle, IRST triplex FBW Stick) Helmet-mounted sight Helmet-mounted sight quadraplex FBW IRST ECM pods DASS ESM Pods quadraplex FBW *future FBL Initial Order: 295 Units 148 Units None placed That's a nice summary. You missed the Intraflight Datalinks (IDL) for the F-22. That plays a big role in the F-22 CONOPS. Does Typhoon have that facility? I know Grypen does. Typhoon does have a datalink capability. There are also a lot more than 148 ordered (if the original orders go through its over 600) Comparison of tankage would be helpful both internal and with external tanks. |
#5
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"Ian Craig" wrote in message ... "Paul F Austin" wrote in message ... "robert arndt" wrote in message om... Data: F-22 Eurofighter Su-35 Raptor Typhoon Superflanker Crew: 1 1 1 Engine: 2 P&W 2 Eurojet 2 Saturn F-119 EJ200 AL-35F 35,000 20,250 28,218 lb each lb each lb each Max Speed: Mach 1.70 Mach 2.0 Mach 2.35 Gun: 20mm GE 27mm Mauser 30mm GSh-30 M61A1 BK 27 linkless ---- Internal: 3 bays: N/A N/A 4 Sidewinder ---- ---- 4 AIM-120A/ ---- ---- 6 AIM-120C/ ---- ---- GBU-32 JDAM ---- ---- External: 4 hardpoints 13 hardpoints 12 hardpoints 5000 lb ord. ARM,ASRAAM,IRIS-T * 6 different AAMs or fuel METEOR,STORM SHADOW, * 6 different ASMs Features: Stealth (RAM KEPD350,ALARM,GBU-10/12 * various IR/LG/TVG + serrated 80% CF construction bombs edges) * future anti-radar pod * anti-radiation Supercruise: Yes Yes No Radar: APG-77 CAPTOR Doppler Zhuk-PH+ rear NO12 Systems: HUD+ 4 LCDs Wide angle HUD HUD+ 3 LCDs sidestick VTAS (Voice, Throttle, IRST triplex FBW Stick) Helmet-mounted sight Helmet-mounted sight quadraplex FBW IRST ECM pods DASS ESM Pods quadraplex FBW *future FBL Initial Order: 295 Units 148 Units None placed That's a nice summary. You missed the Intraflight Datalinks (IDL) for the F-22. That plays a big role in the F-22 CONOPS. Does Typhoon have that facility? I know Grypen does. Typhoon does have a datalink capability. There's datalinks and datalinks. Saying Typhoon has one is like saying it has wheels. IDL manages beam direction and radiated power and uses a covert waveform to minimize probability of detection outside the local group. At the same time, there's sensor fusion within the local group with sensor data passed from AC to AC so that everyone sees what anyone sees. If you want (more than you would believe) data links, go he http://www.afceaeriecanal.org/AFRL.Minges.ppt for an overview of the web of USAF links. |
#6
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Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..
Supercruise: Yes Yes No Radar: APG-77 CAPTOR Doppler Zhuk-PH+ rear NO12 Systems: HUD+ 4 LCDs Wide angle HUD HUD+ 3 LCDs sidestick VTAS (Voice, Throttle, IRST triplex FBW Stick) Helmet-mounted sight Helmet-mounted sight quadraplex FBW IRST ECM pods DASS ESM Pods quadraplex FBW *future FBL Initial Order: 295 Units 148 Units None placed That's a nice summary. You missed the Intraflight Datalinks (IDL) for the F-22. Sorry, the miss is not intentional as this post is all about a basic comparison using what information is verified at the time. The Typhoon also has the MIDS datalink. He also seems to have left out the ESM system which is quite elaborate in the F-22. It can take an AMRAAM shot with it without even using it's main radar. Also he was incorrect on the F-22's speed. The mach 1.7 he lists in in dry thrust and it wasn't even max military power. Paul Metz stated on a Discovery special that the maximum speed of the F-22 is classified but that it will go Mach 2.5. To quote him ". . .it's fast, I mean it's REALLY fast. It's top speed is classifed but it will do Mach 2.5" This suggests that the top speed in afterburner is over Mach 2.5. Paul Metz is the chief test pilot of the F-22 program. My Mach 1.7 figure is what is admitted right now, not the final speed of the aircraft. Typhoon also is said to do Mach 2.2 but that remains to be seen. As for the F-22 doing Mach 2.5 fully loaded- no chance. Maybe a test aircraft but not a combat version. BTW, the F-22s ceiling of 60,000 ft and range of 3,500 miles might be slightly off... but not by much. I did not mention them however because they are not verified nor admitted by Lockheed. That plays a big role in the F-22 CONOPS. Does Typhoon have that facility? I know Grypen does. Comparison of tankage would be helpful both internal and with external tanks. This information, in reliable terms, is hard to come by... so I left it out. I have no idea on the Typhoon. The Flanker's is somewhere between 19k and 20k internal. I don't know what it can carry external. I don't recall ever seeing one with external tanks. The F-22 at first was said to have 23,000 internal but then later I saw that it was something like 18,700lbs. Add the roughly 20,000lbs of four 600 gallon tanks and you get 38,700lb of fuel. Roughly double the Flanker's fuel load. For comparison an F-15E (or I I guess too) has something like 13,500 internal, 10k in the conformal tanks and 15k more in three 600 gallon tanks for a total of about 38,500lbs. Six different kinds of AAMs on the Flanker? What is that, the AA-10, AA-11, AA-12 and what AA-8? What are the other 2? R-37 was cancelled, That air to air Krypton looking thing is a paper design AFAIK and the AAA-AE or whatever that two stage long range missile was has never entered service either. Flanker AAMs: R-27, R-40, R-60, R-73A, R-77, and KS-172. Flanker ASMs: Kh-25ML, Kh-25MP, Kh-29, KH-31, KH-59, KH-65S. Flanker LGBs: GBU-500, GBU-1500, plus TV guided versions. Flanker AR: KH-15P Rob |
#7
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My Mach 1.7 figure is what is admitted right now, not the final speed of the aircraft. Typhoon also is said to do Mach 2.2 but that remains to be seen. As for the F-22 doing Mach 2.5 fully loaded- no chance. Flanker Mach 2.35 fully loaded? No chance. Where in your list did it say those maximum speeds were fully loaded? Nowhere? That's what I thought. |
#8
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Six different kinds of AAMs on the Flanker? What is that, the AA-10, AA-11, AA-12 and what AA-8? What are the other 2? R-37 was cancelled, That air to air Krypton looking thing is a paper design AFAIK and the AAA-AE or whatever that two stage long range missile was has never entered service either. Flanker AAMs: R-27, R-40, R-60, R-73A, R-77, and KS-172. KS-172 is a paper missile. No Flanker of any sort carries the R-40 (Do you know which one that is?) Come to think of it I've never seen a picture of a Flanker carrying an R-40 nor read that it's armament for the Flanker. Flanker ASMs: Kh-25ML, Kh-25MP, Kh-29, KH-31, KH-59, KH-65S. Flanker LGBs: GBU-500, GBU-1500, plus TV guided versions. Flanker AR: KH-15P Rob |
#9
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On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:27:59 GMT, Scott Ferrin
wrote: Six different kinds of AAMs on the Flanker? What is that, the AA-10, AA-11, AA-12 and what AA-8? What are the other 2? R-37 was cancelled, That air to air Krypton looking thing is a paper design AFAIK and the AAA-AE or whatever that two stage long range missile was has never entered service either. Flanker AAMs: R-27, R-40, R-60, R-73A, R-77, and KS-172. KS-172 is a paper missile. No Flanker of any sort carries the R-40 (Do you know which one that is?) Come to think of it I've never seen a picture of a Flanker carrying an R-40 nor read that it's armament for the Flanker. "Come to think of it I've never seen a picture of a Flanker carrying an R-40 nor read that it's armament for the Flanker." I meant to say R-60. In simpler terms: KS-172 is a paper missile, the Flanker has NEVER carried the AA-6 Acrid, and I've never seen the AA-8 Aphid listed as armament for the Flanker anywhere nor ever seen a picture of the Flanker actually carrying it. |
#10
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Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:27:59 GMT, Scott Ferrin wrote: Six different kinds of AAMs on the Flanker? What is that, the AA-10, AA-11, AA-12 and what AA-8? What are the other 2? R-37 was cancelled, That air to air Krypton looking thing is a paper design AFAIK and the AAA-AE or whatever that two stage long range missile was has never entered service either. Flanker AAMs: R-27, R-40, R-60, R-73A, R-77, and KS-172. KS-172 is a paper missile. No Flanker of any sort carries the R-40 (Do you know which one that is?) Come to think of it I've never seen a picture of a Flanker carrying an R-40 nor read that it's armament for the Flanker. "Come to think of it I've never seen a picture of a Flanker carrying an R-40 nor read that it's armament for the Flanker." I meant to say R-60. In simpler terms: KS-172 is a paper missile, the Flanker has NEVER carried the AA-6 Acrid, and I've never seen the AA-8 Aphid listed as armament for the Flanker anywhere nor ever seen a picture of the Flanker actually carrying it. All the current armaments listed were for the Su-35 Superflanker: http://iron-eagles.tripod.com/eb_ac_files/su35.htm Rob |
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