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#11
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will NeedFixes
On Mar 26, 3:58*am, Kerryn Offord wrote:
Matt Wiser wrote: Then explain its record in Iraq and Afghanistan so far. No combat losses or crashes in-country. Like I said, if you have an alternative platform to replace the H-46s, let's hear it. Otherwise, either get on board or get out of the way. doing what kind of operations at what kind of tempo.. last we heard (SMN) it was doing the mail runs.. and running through their engines at a high rate of knots... As for alternatives.. any number of proper helicopters... Things that can carry the same cargo with a third of the power requirements.. And can fly quite easily with a slung load... (If the V-22 fly with a slung load you'd be better off using helicopters... they're only any good if you can fly with internal cargo only.. and even then it gets a bit cramped.... First crash with real troops on board and it gets on the "history" list. One of the concepts of the V-22 was its ability to switch from vertical to horizontal. The loose bolts seem to suggest that might not work every time. |
#12
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will Need Fixes
"Vincent Brannigan" wrote in message
... vaughn wrote: "Jack Linthicum" wrote in message ... Compromising control of the rotor sounds like a fatal crash to me. I have seen military blogs that say that all of the production must be finished and accepted before the first major accident can occur. Wishing or making sure? This is the type of stuff that happens with any new aircraft. We "learn by doing". With something as complex and as "different" as the Osprey, we will probably see a significant list of these issues. And yes, some of them will probably cause accidents before the learning is all over. Vaughn "new" ? any idea how long this sucker has been teething? First flight was 19 March 1989 20 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep making excuses for the turkey Vince I guess this means the C-130 a turkey as well. 'course, it's only been flying since 1956. "Inspections of C-130 Hercules cargo aircraft ... are turning up cracks in the nuts and bolts used to attach the wings to the planes' fuselages. The order to inspect the fleet came late Thursday after cracks were found in some upper wing joint barrel nuts. As a result, the U.S. Air Force has ordered that every C-130 in the nation's 600-plane fleet be checked, which includes the older..." -- Curt KVPS |
#13
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will NeedFixes
On Mar 26, 6:38*am, "Curt" wrote:
"Vincent Brannigan" wrote in message ... vaughn wrote: "Jack Linthicum" wrote in message .... Compromising control of the rotor sounds like a fatal crash to me. I have seen *military blogs that say that all of the production must be finished and accepted before the first major accident can occur. Wishing or making sure? * *This is the type of stuff that happens with any new aircraft. *We "learn by doing". *With something as complex and as "different" as the Osprey, we will probably see a significant list of these issues. *And yes, some of them will probably cause accidents before the learning is all over. Vaughn "new" *? *any idea how long this sucker has been teething? First flight was 19 March 1989 20 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep making excuses for the turkey Vince I guess this means the C-130 a turkey as well. *'course, it's only been flying since 1956. "Inspections of C-130 Hercules cargo aircraft ... are turning up cracks in the nuts and bolts used to attach the wings to the planes' fuselages. The order to inspect the fleet came late Thursday after cracks were found in some upper wing joint barrel nuts. As a result, the U.S. Air Force has ordered that every C-130 in the nation's 600-plane fleet be checked, which includes the older..." -- Curt KVPS There is a discernible difference between a device that has been used successfully for that 53 years and is now showing signs of that age and a device which shows signs of age without being old. |
#14
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will Need Fixes
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:21:41 -0400, "Raymond O'Hara"
wrote: "Matt Wiser" wrote in message ... As long as it takes. The USMC has a habit of getting its way on procurement, so either get on board or get out of the way. Not to mention that it's been a number of years since the last crash (the one that had 19 Marines killed), and the aircraft has been tested, evaled, and tested again. If you've got an alternative aircraft to replace the H-46, let's hear it. If not, follow the above advice. there comes a point when it's obvious the thing doesn't work as advertised. the V-22 passed that 5 years ago. the B-29 had no more than normal teething troubles and was soon enough sorted out. The development of the B-29 was long, expensive and difficult for the time. There was a direct and urgent need that made it worth the trouble. Under similar pressure the V-22 might have worked two decades ago. Peter Skelton |
#15
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will Need Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will Need
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:56:45 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
wrote: On Mar 26, 3:58*am, Kerryn Offord wrote: Matt Wiser wrote: Then explain its record in Iraq and Afghanistan so far. No combat losses or crashes in-country. Like I said, if you have an alternative platform to replace the H-46s, let's hear it. Otherwise, either get on board or get out of the way. doing what kind of operations at what kind of tempo.. last we heard (SMN) it was doing the mail runs.. and running through their engines at a high rate of knots... As for alternatives.. any number of proper helicopters... Things that can carry the same cargo with a third of the power requirements.. And can fly quite easily with a slung load... (If the V-22 fly with a slung load you'd be better off using helicopters... they're only any good if you can fly with internal cargo only.. and even then it gets a bit cramped.... First crash with real troops on board and it gets on the "history" list. One of the concepts of the V-22 was its ability to switch from vertical to horizontal. The loose bolts seem to suggest that might not work every time. April 8, 2000 Peter Skelton |
#16
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will Need Fixes
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:21:48 GMT, Vincent Brannigan
wrote: vaughn wrote: "Jack Linthicum" wrote in message ... Compromising control of the rotor sounds like a fatal crash to me. I have seen military blogs that say that all of the production must be finished and accepted before the first major accident can occur. Wishing or making sure? This is the type of stuff that happens with any new aircraft. We "learn by doing". With something as complex and as "different" as the Osprey, we will probably see a significant list of these issues. And yes, some of them will probably cause accidents before the learning is all over. Vaughn "new" ? any idea how long this sucker has been teething? First flight was 19 March 1989 20 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A good friend of mine ditched an S-2E off Rhode Island in 1973 after an elctrical system glitch was found. That system that failed had been in Fleet Service in the S-2D, E, and G series. We were still learning about the P-3 in late '70s and early '80s, more than 20 years after fleet introduction. I suspect every aircraft ever put into service surprises the users from time to time. |
#17
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will NeedFixes
On Mar 26, 8:11*am, Vincent Brannigan wrote:
Curt wrote: "Vincent Brannigan" wrote in message ... vaughn wrote: "Jack Linthicum" wrote in message .... Compromising control of the rotor sounds like a fatal crash to me. I have seen *military blogs that say that all of the production must be finished and accepted before the first major *accident can occur. Wishing or making sure? This is the type of stuff that happens with any new aircraft. *We *"learn by doing". *With something as complex and as "different" as the Osprey, we will probably see a significant list of these issues. *And yes, some of them will probably cause accidents before the learning is all over. Vaughn "new" *? *any idea how long this sucker has been teething? First flight was 19 March 1989 20 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep making excuses for the turkey Vince I guess this means the C-130 a turkey as well. *'course, it's only been flying since 1956. "Inspections of C-130 Hercules cargo aircraft *... are turning up cracks in the nuts and bolts used to attach the wings to the planes' fuselages. The order to inspect the fleet came late Thursday after cracks were found in some upper wing joint barrel *nuts. As a result, the U.S. Air Force has ordered that every C-130 in the nation's 600-plane fleet be checked, which includes the older..." the *suggestion was that this was a "This is the type of stuff that happens with any new aircraft" The C 130 is a quality control issue with a part "Concerns surfaced March 5 about a particular brand of upper wing joint barrel nuts used in C-130s to attach the wings to the fuselage. * The barrel nuts supplied by one manufacturer were deemed "suspect" * after routine inspections discovered a potential for stress fractures * in the metal. As a result, the Pentagon mandated a fleetwide * inspection of each plane's 26 barrel nuts and replacement of all nuts * with the faulty design before the planes could fly again." The V-22 Loose bolts are either a maintenance screw up or a design problem Vince- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Most likely the former. They're still finding occasional issues with C-130s, P-3s, F/A-18s, etc. If you've got an existing helo that can match the range, performance, and other requirements that the V-22 meets, name it. Otherwise, get on board or get out of the way. |
#18
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will NeedFixes
On Mar 26, 2:17*pm, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Mar 26, 8:11*am, Vincent Brannigan wrote: Curt wrote: "Vincent Brannigan" wrote in message ... vaughn wrote: "Jack Linthicum" wrote in message ... Compromising control of the rotor sounds like a fatal crash to me. I have seen *military blogs that say that all of the production must be finished and accepted before the first major *accident can occur. Wishing or making sure? This is the type of stuff that happens with any new aircraft. *We *"learn by doing". *With something as complex and as "different" as the Osprey, we will probably see a significant list of these issues. *And yes, some of them will probably cause accidents before the learning is all over. Vaughn "new" *? *any idea how long this sucker has been teething? First flight was 19 March 1989 20 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep making excuses for the turkey Vince I guess this means the C-130 a turkey as well. *'course, it's only been flying since 1956. "Inspections of C-130 Hercules cargo aircraft *... are turning up cracks in the nuts and bolts used to attach the wings to the planes' fuselages. The order to inspect the fleet came late Thursday after cracks were found in some upper wing joint barrel *nuts. As a result, the U.S. Air Force has ordered that every C-130 in the nation's 600-plane fleet be checked, which includes the older..." the *suggestion was that this was a "This is the type of stuff that happens with any new aircraft" The C 130 is a quality control issue with a part "Concerns surfaced March 5 about a particular brand of upper wing joint barrel nuts used in C-130s to attach the wings to the fuselage. * The barrel nuts supplied by one manufacturer were deemed "suspect" * after routine inspections discovered a potential for stress fractures * in the metal. As a result, the Pentagon mandated a fleetwide * inspection of each plane's 26 barrel nuts and replacement of all nuts * with the faulty design before the planes could fly again." The V-22 Loose bolts are either a maintenance screw up or a design problem Vince- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Most likely the former. They're still finding occasional issues with C-130s, P-3s, F/A-18s, etc. If you've got an existing helo that can match the range, performance, and other requirements that the V-22 meets, name it. Otherwise, get on board or get out of the way. Might recommend getting out of the way, V-22's greatest quality is speed, an overrated quality in a combat situation. |
#19
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will Need Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will Need
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:11:06 GMT, Vincent Brannigan
wrote: Curt wrote: "Vincent Brannigan" wrote in message ... vaughn wrote: "Jack Linthicum" wrote in message ... Compromising control of the rotor sounds like a fatal crash to me. I have seen military blogs that say that all of the production must be finished and accepted before the first major accident can occur. Wishing or making sure? This is the type of stuff that happens with any new aircraft. We "learn by doing". With something as complex and as "different" as the Osprey, we will probably see a significant list of these issues. And yes, some of them will probably cause accidents before the learning is all over. Vaughn "new" ? any idea how long this sucker has been teething? First flight was 19 March 1989 20 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep making excuses for the turkey Vince I guess this means the C-130 a turkey as well. 'course, it's only been flying since 1956. "Inspections of C-130 Hercules cargo aircraft ... are turning up cracks in the nuts and bolts used to attach the wings to the planes' fuselages. The order to inspect the fleet came late Thursday after cracks were found in some upper wing joint barrel nuts. As a result, the U.S. Air Force has ordered that every C-130 in the nation's 600-plane fleet be checked, which includes the older..." the suggestion was that this was a "This is the type of stuff that happens with any new aircraft" The C 130 is a quality control issue with a part "Concerns surfaced March 5 about a particular brand of upper wing joint barrel nuts used in C-130s to attach the wings to the fuselage. The barrel nuts supplied by one manufacturer were deemed "suspect" after routine inspections discovered a potential for stress fractures in the metal. As a result, the Pentagon mandated a fleetwide inspection of each plane's 26 barrel nuts and replacement of all nuts with the faulty design before the planes could fly again." The V-22 Loose bolts are either a maintenance screw up or a design problem On what basis do you reject subspecification manufacture, and improper original installation? .. Peter Skelton |
#20
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Loose Bolts Ground V-22 Ospreys; Four Aircraft in Iraq Will NeedFixes
Matt Wiser wrote:
As long as it takes. The USMC has a habit of getting its way on procurement, so either get on board or get out of the way. Not to mention that it's been a number of years since the last crash (the one that had 19 Marines killed), and the aircraft has been tested, evaled, and tested again. If you've got an alternative aircraft to replace the H-46, let's hear it. If not, follow the above advice. [ SNIP ] New CH-46's? I'm not being entirely facetious here...other folks suggested this back in the '90's, although the idea would have been to manufacture an improved CH-46. One of our (any country, not just the US) biggest defense procurement problems is whenever a weapons system or vehicle or radio...whatever...starts getting old, we almost always feel the need to design and build a *new* thing. I'll buy that concept for electronics, but it's not obvious to me that if a truck fleet or a buy of helicopters or rifles gets worn out, that we need to spend 10 or 20 years designing entirely new ones. AHS |
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