Dangerous Cessna evacuates govt again

Arnold wrote:

This interview was just after some undersecretary for Homeland
Security
stated to Wolf Blitzer that a "small aircraft of this size can carry
0ne
or Two THOUSAND pounds of explosives".

Come on, give this poor guy some credit. Perhaps he meant one to two
thousand ounces.

After all, he was on live TV.

--
Peter

On 11 May 2005 12:17:58 -0700, "Kev" wrote:

Heard on Fox that aircraft was taken "without permission".

Which is apparently newspeak for the actual "We didn't have this flight
listed on our books" from the club owners. Although apparently
everyone in the club knew these guys were flying to an airshow down
South.

Sure wish there was an easy way to sue newspeople for outright
fabrications.


Everyone wants the scoop I guess and jumps at any news at all.

Paul kgyy wrote:

True to the rugged pioneer spirit of our great country, DC cowered for
cover again as a Cessna violated the no-fly zone. Fighter jets were
scrambled to deal with this imminent threat to the security of our
nation.

What I want to know is how an INSTRUCTOR who lives in the region can be
so UNAWARE of their location in proximity to an ADIZ and a No-Fly Zone
centered on the nations capitol. How one cannot be within 4 miles away
from the nations capitol in the post 9/11 environment and realize "hey,
am I supposed to be here"? If you are lost, get on the radio. If you are
seeing landmarks that are 30-50 miles inside a restricted area, like the
WASHINGTON MONUMENT and WHITE HOUSE you should be realizing something.

How someone can be intercepted not only by an apache but also an F-16
and not respond to ATC calling you on 121.5 also makes me wonder. Yes...
the sheeply panicked. There was organized mass panic based on unknown
intentions, and that was unfortunate. What is astounding is the fact
that an instructor blundered so seriously, when the areas are marked on
charts, the ADIZ's are clearly described, the FSS's re-emphasize certain
briefings from time to time (such as Intercept Procedures, for example).

If anything, all we have managed to demonstrate is.. you can get within
3 miles now without getting shot down. Crap like this will only serve to
get the "restricted areas" even larger, and more restrictive, and will
undo the YEARS of work the aphabet groups have put in towards opening up
the DC airspace.

Un-F*#&ing believable.
Dave

They cant? Gee.. I guess this guy listed below was lying. So, why cant
they exist? Only need a few pounds of fissionable material and some
shielding. Dont need a LOT of shielding, since the guy delivering it is
on a suicide mission and not really worried about radiation sickness.
But Im not a nuclear physicist.. I just play one on TV :P.

Dave

http://armageddononline.tripod.com/nuclear.htm

Why are suitcase bombs such a great risk?
Russia created around 250 suitcase bombs - nuclear weapons the size of
suitcases. According to a Soviet defector called Aleksander Lebed it has
lost track of more than 100 - each of which could kill more than 100,000
people. Many of these bombs were distributed and hidden in hostile
countries. Possibly the worst effect of a terrorist nuclear device would
be that it could trigger a nuclear war. If America thought Russia had
used nuclear weapons against it, it would not hesitate to retaliate; so
one small nuclear device could kill billions.
x-ray wrote:

"Sport Pilot" wrote:

Not when its possible for a C150 to carry a small A bomb in a suitcase.



Apparently you do not understand nuclear weapons.

1) You can NOT put "A bomb" in a suitcase.
2) Considering the weight of such "suitcase" it would take 4 people to carry
it.
3) You need explosives to compress the plutonium to approx 3 times normal
density, not to mention the weight of the shielding you need, unless you
want to be a martyr.
4) By skipping 3) the device would be enough radioactive to harm the one who
is carrying it - they would be dead before they got to target!
5) Oh, by the way, by skipping 3) radiation sensors around various areas
would go ape ****.

In short, "A bomb" suitcase is nothing but paranoia (but that's already
mentioned in thread, so i won't go into it again).

On Wed, 11 May 2005 17:29:43 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
On 11 May 2005 18:51:01 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote:


The latest report on WTOP (news station in DC) was that the aircraft WAS
squawking the correct code, but that there was some sort of communications
problem. I'm glad to see that everyone was so willing to jump on top of
our brother pilots.


The ADIZ procedures require immediate egress from the ADIZ upon lost
comms through shortest-exit to the boundary.

That restriction is only for lost TRANSPONDER capability. And of course
it presumes that the pilot knows the transponder is out.

K, I must have been confusing (or combining it) with another notam.

You can't blame the whole ADIZ piece of **** on pilots. It took
badgering the FAA for over a year to get them to chart the blasted
thing for example. The TRACON and the other political entities
are still having ****ing matches over operations (or else the
Kentucky governor fiasco wouldn't have happened either).

I'm not blaming the whole ADIZ fiasco on pilots, it's a ridiculous
waste of energy to put on an ineffective show. But the area isn't an
unknown any more, flying towards the prohibited airspace (unless they
were vectored towards it?) contained within it isn't exactly smart
even if you do have a transponder and 2way comms, and things like this
make it more difficult on the people who want to but can't figure out
how to get rid of it yet not have to admit it was the wrong thing to
do in the first place.

("Arnold Sten" wrote)
[snip]
This interview was just after some undersecretary for Homeland Security
stated to Wolf Blitzer that a "small aircraft of this size can carry 0ne
or Two THOUSAND pounds of explosives". Talk about your typical uneducated
Washington Bureaucrat!


I saw that on CNN too - ALERT ALERT. He said the plane itself would do
little damage, but they do have a maximum capacity of up to 2,000 lbs. I
knew what he was trying to get at - but I also heard how it came out.

Then Wolf immediately says, 'the important thing is, we didn't know if they
were carrying biological or chemical weapons in that little plane.'


Montblack
For the tough jobs, they always call in the minivans!!

Sport Pilot wrote:
Yes, it's silly for the gov't to scatter like hens when a Cessna

approaches,

but that's not the point.


Not when its possible for a C150 to carry a small A bomb in a suitcase.



With all this talk of A-bombs, I would like to say hello to all the
government agents who are now reading this thread.

HI GUYS!

We're all good Americans here!

Ron Natalie wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote:

AOPA or the like should help make examples of these pilots, in a big
public way. "We won't tolerate ignorance among our own and suggest
immediate revocation of their flying privileges".



At first blush upon reading this I thought "How ridiculous!"

However, the more I consider it, the more I think John is onto
something here. If we, the pilot community, don't do something to
make it apparent that these morons who keep busting the TFRs are NOT
representative of the rest of us, nor do they reflect the predominant
attitude of most pilots, nor do they reflect a general lack of
intelligence shared by other pilots, I fear that the federal
government is simply going to make the whole danged East Coast a
no-fly zone.


The ADIZ already encompasses an area with a population bigger than your
entire state.


Yeah, and there goes AOPA's efforts to reopen the DC3.

In article , "JohnH"
wrote:

Yes, it's silly for the gov't to scatter like hens when a Cessna approaches,
but that's not the point.

well, it d--- well should be the point!

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

Peter Clark wrote:
I'm not blaming the whole ADIZ fiasco on pilots, it's a ridiculous
waste of energy to put on an ineffective show. But the area isn't an
unknown any more, flying towards the prohibited airspace (unless they
were vectored towards it?) contained within it isn't exactly smart
even if you do have a transponder and 2way comms, and things like this
make it more difficult on the people who want to but can't figure out
how to get rid of it yet not have to admit it was the wrong thing to
do in the first place.

One of the local stations apparently interviewed the student pilot's wife
(by phone). Apparently, he was well aware of the ADIZ and was worried
about navigating around it (or through it with the proper squawk). It
sounds to me like some kind of simple navigation problem that was allowed
to expand to some level of disorientation.

This is why a no-fly zone (enforced by deadly force) doesn't make any
sense in a free society. Human beings make mistakes from time to time,
and we're not living in the Soviet Union.

--- Jay


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