Dangerous Cessna evacuates govt again

"kontiki" wrote in message
news
iflyatiger wrote:
I wonder how we look to people outside of the usa.

When a single Cessna airplane can cause the government to shut down and
people to scramble in fear. Imagine what the people all over the world
some
of whom live in war zones or under daily fear of their evil governments
must
think of our chicken behavior...
I also cant help but wonder what the men and woman of our armed services
think of this. They live in danger everyday and then they see how their
leaders react to a small plane simply flying somewhere it shouldn't.

Disgusting !!

Exactly. Its totally ridiculous that the US Government allows millions
of illegals to cross its borders every month while it totally freaks out
when a littel Cessna comes close to Washington DC. What a complete joke.

Soon Washington DC will be like Berlin... barbed wires, tanks and
outposts.

That would be fine as long as the gates in the barbed wire only opened in.

Flying from NJ I am super aware of that ADIZ zone. Instructor ?? Student
Pilot??
I went to Landings.com
http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*72704370!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/ac-cert.html

And did a search on these two guys and didn't get a hit. I don't know if
this is a comprehensive database or if you can opt to not be in it. "flown
by Jim Sheaffer of Lititz, Pa., and student pilot Troy Martin, of Akron,
Pa., "

Given the flight path S37 to KLBT I can envision a communication problem
with ATC. I wouldn't want to fly around the zone (Delaware Bay to the East,
higher terain and area P-40 to the West.) It was pretty hazy in the East
today. Who knows maybe it was a mix up. ATC (super super folks, I've a few
of them) have their hands full managing this busy airspace with the staff
and technology available.

Over reaction. Yes much like my mother in law who ask my wife if she will be
wearing a parachute for our local flight in a 172. (interesting she didn't
ask me).

Arnold Sten wrote:
AOPA Phil Boyer was interviewed on CNN at 1745 EDT. He set the record

straight by stating that a C150, carrying two adults and full fuel
has
little to no cargo capacity (polite way of saying no explosives).

It's easy to criticize afterwards because we now know the exact
circumstances. But during the situation, could they tell from radar
that it was a C150, carrying two adults, full fuel, and no explosives?

This interview was just after some undersecretary for Homeland
Security
stated to Wolf Blitzer that a "small aircraft of this size can carry
0ne
or Two THOUSAND pounds of explosives". Talk about your typical
uneducated Washington Bureaucrat!

Actually, he's right. He said "small aircraft of this size". He didn't
say the C150. The Cessna Turbo Stationair can carry 1338 lbs of useful
load.

"Jay Masino" wrote in message
...
The latest report on WTOP (news station in DC) was that the aircraft WAS
squawking the correct code, but that there was some sort of communications
problem. I'm glad to see that everyone was so willing to jump on top of
our brother pilots.

A communication problem is no excuse for doing what they did. These guys
are from the area and have no excuse for not knowing about the restricted
area. They aren't my brothers,



--
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Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
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"kontiki" wrote in message
...
W P Dixon wrote:

WOW!
One would have to be pretty stupid to fly over DC in todays world. I
can understand the "No Fly Zone" policy, but I can't understand why all
the cops in the area have to act like Soviet paratroopers are descending
around Washington Monument.
Yeah, well it was a student pilot for God's sake. Lets Burn him/her at
the stake.

When onboard the USS Iwo Jima we almost had to shoot down a small GA
plane in the Med. He invaded our airspace, after the second warning
battle stations were called, all the cool anti aircraft machine guns and
missles came online. The Captain had them try him one last time and he
waved his wings and turned around. I often wonder if he actually
realized how close to dying he was.
A military vessel at sea is a lot different than US city that is supposed
to be the epitome of freedom in the civilized word.

So I can agree with most and say the DC police act like a bunch of
bent out of shape Campfire Girls running around screaming , but if a US
Warship has protected airspace..shouldn't the Capital of the US? What
excuse could a pilot give in VFR conditions for being to close to DC? Oh
I didn't know what DC looked like? I agree with the take their license
away.

As I said, it was a stedent pilot... sheesh. And why not shut down the
airspace around all US cities while we are at it? After all, Don Daley
destroyed an airport in Chicago proportedly because of the "threat" of
these dangerous GA aircraft.

One of them was a student pilot the other was at least a private. OBTW it
is Dick Daley, not Don.

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Jay Masino wrote:

The latest report on WTOP (news station in DC) was that the aircraft WAS
squawking the correct code, but that there was some sort of
communications
problem. I'm glad to see that everyone was so willing to jump on top of
our brother pilots.

Well stated Jay. How wonderful it would be if ALL pilots would speak with
a single voice regarding the idiotic sitution this country is now in
because
of its complete lack of balls to protect our borders or to even care who
waltzes
in here from God knows wherever.

I guess we will be left to just play tiddly winks until the next serious
attack happens so we can propose even more draconian restrictions that
will
only further aggravate law abiding U.S. citizens going about theit
business.

Laws are only effective on the law-abiding. But shame on me for proposing
that actual U.S. citizens get any preferred treatment over illegal aliens.

Granted, the current rules are nonsense but that doesn't give these two
nitwits the go ahead to fly into the restricted area. That's not how you
fix stupid rules. That's how you get more stupid rules.

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message

When DC is closed off to all vehicular traffic,

....they'll walk in or blow up the subway if they want.

It's really ridiculous. London endured the Blitz. America has got to stop
living in fear.

-c

"Sully" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:03:57 +0100, "S."
wrote:


"Paul kgyy" wrote in message
roups.com...
True to the rugged pioneer spirit of our great country, DC cowered for
cover again as a Cessna violated the no-fly zone. Fighter jets were
scrambled to deal with this imminent threat to the security of our
nation.


Hi Folks,

As always, intelligent (sometimes pithy !) observation from members of
the
aviation community in the above postings ; I agree with all of it.

Newsreel footage of EVERYONE in D.C. scattering in all directions has
just
been shown on Channel 4 news (U.K.) ; it looked like a badly made
disaster
movie. A police officer shouted "GET OUT, NOW !" to the floor of the
House.
Unseemly and totally lacking in composure or dignity.

If this is what an off-track Cessna can do the the worlds most
technologically powerful and sophisticated nation, I have to ask "Have
the
terrorists already won ?".

I would have to say that the answer to this question is a resounding
YES! Between people living in fear in that area of a possible attack
(mostly because of our wonderful news media), and all the restrictions
that are placed on wrong people or wrong areas they have at least
scored a huge victory in the battle if not the war. The ironic part
is that while we are imposing all these rules on people who are here
legally we still have people who want give "illegal aliens" driver's
licenses and jobs!( I know another topic all together)


I hope to go to San Diego, and work my way up to CPL in August, achieving
the last of my life's ambitions at 48.It would be tragic if the
authorities
were to restrict the people who could take the controls of an aircraft,
by
way of "security measures".

Idiots like this one today may curtail that, if they don't take the ease
of
access to flying, just a little bit less for granted.



Something to remember though through all of this is that it was a
"STUDENT" and instructor. The instructor maybe should have been
paying a little more attention and take much better action and paid a
little more attention but I know that there were many times my
instructor sat silently waiting to see how long it would take for me
to correct my mistakes. Of course I myself would have went out of my
way to aviod the hassle of that area completely but the instructor may
have wanted the student to get a lesson on dealing with the ADIZ since
he would be flying in that area..to the instructor's credit the
student just got a lesson that he will never forget if he gets to fly
again!!

I'd like to see how the instructor logs this flight in the student's log
book.

Granted, the current rules are nonsense but that doesn't give these two
nitwits the go ahead to fly into the restricted area. That's not how you
fix stupid rules. That's how you get more stupid rules.

Just idly thinking here after two glasses of wine, but what if =all= the
spam cans in the country formed a line and flew directly over the white
house at 2000 feet with no transponder code and no clearance, and kept
doing it even as we were being shot down? What do you think the
eventual effect of this would be?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Dave Stadt wrote:
A communication problem is no excuse for doing what they did. These guys
are from the area and have no excuse for not knowing about the restricted
area. They aren't my brothers,

Some reports say that they, in fact, had an ADIZ squawk code. That would
suggest that they were atleast trying to do follow the correct procedure.
It would be nice if we allowed them to be innocent until proven
guilty. Human beings make mistakes, occasionally.


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com