Coordinated turns without rudder, and autopilots

Mxsmanic wrote
How do autopilots make coordinated turns even when they cannot control
the rudder?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An unwanted side-effect of aileron operation is adverse yaw — a yawing
moment in the opposite direction to the turn generated by the ailerons. In
other words, using the ailerons to roll an aircraft to the right would
produce a yawing motion to the left. It is caused by an increase in induced
drag due to the greater effective camber of the wing with a downward-
deflected aileron, and the opposite effect on the other wing. Modern
aileron systems have minimal adverse yaw, such that it is barely noticeable
in most turns. This may be accomplished by the use of differential
ailerons, which have been rigged such that the downgoing aileron deflects
less than the upward-moving one. Frise ailerons achieve the same effect by
protruding beneath the wing of an upward deflected aileron, increasing drag
on that side. Ailerons may also use a combination of these methods.

Bob Moore

Bob Moore writes:

An unwanted side-effect of aileron operation is adverse yaw — a yawing
moment in the opposite direction to the turn generated by the ailerons. In
other words, using the ailerons to roll an aircraft to the right would
produce a yawing motion to the left. It is caused by an increase in induced
drag due to the greater effective camber of the wing with a downward-
deflected aileron, and the opposite effect on the other wing. Modern
aileron systems have minimal adverse yaw, such that it is barely noticeable
in most turns. This may be accomplished by the use of differential
ailerons, which have been rigged such that the downgoing aileron deflects
less than the upward-moving one. Frise ailerons achieve the same effect by
protruding beneath the wing of an upward deflected aileron, increasing drag
on that side. Ailerons may also use a combination of these methods.

Except I do see adverse yaw in turns in my (simulated) Baron, so either the
simulation is in error, or the AP knows something about making coordinated
turns without rudder input that I do not.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Bob Moore writes:

An unwanted side-effect of aileron operation is adverse yaw — a
yawing moment in the opposite direction to the turn generated by the
ailerons. In other words, using the ailerons to roll an aircraft to
the right would produce a yawing motion to the left. It is caused by
an increase in induced drag due to the greater effective camber of
the wing with a downward- deflected aileron, and the opposite effect
on the other wing. Modern aileron systems have minimal adverse yaw,
such that it is barely noticeable in most turns. This may be
accomplished by the use of differential ailerons, which have been
rigged such that the downgoing aileron deflects less than the
upward-moving one. Frise ailerons achieve the same effect by
protruding beneath the wing of an upward deflected aileron,
increasing drag on that side. Ailerons may also use a combination of
these methods.

Except I do see adverse yaw in turns in my (simulated) Baron,

It's not a Baron, fjukktarfd, it;s a comnputer.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote:



ignorant nonsense snipped



No, this is where you're comparing your simulator to
real life.

Again with the real doll scenario. They're not meant
to actually REPLACE a girlfriend. Oh, right, but you
have no interest in getting laid.

BTW, Anime doesn't count, either.

Mxsmanic opined

Bob Moore writes:

An unwanted side-effect of aileron operation is adverse yaw — a yawing
moment in the opposite direction to the turn generated by the ailerons. In
other words, using the ailerons to roll an aircraft to the right would
produce a yawing motion to the left. It is caused by an increase in induced
drag due to the greater effective camber of the wing with a downward-
deflected aileron, and the opposite effect on the other wing. Modern
aileron systems have minimal adverse yaw, such that it is barely noticeable
in most turns. This may be accomplished by the use of differential
ailerons, which have been rigged such that the downgoing aileron deflects
less than the upward-moving one. Frise ailerons achieve the same effect by
protruding beneath the wing of an upward deflected aileron, increasing drag
on that side. Ailerons may also use a combination of these methods.

Except I do see adverse yaw in turns in my (simulated) Baron, so either the
simulation is in error, or the AP knows something about making coordinated
turns without rudder input that I do not.

Looks like you found a simulator error.

Load a 172, and try very slow flight without using the rudder. Use power, hold
altitude and keep slowing until you stall.

You should emd up in a spin.

-ash
Cthulhu in 2007!
Why wait for nature?

Ash Wyllie writes:

Looks like you found a simulator error.

Load a 172, and try very slow flight without using the rudder. Use power, hold
altitude and keep slowing until you stall.

You should emd up in a spin.

Why would I do that? It has nothing to do with my question: How can
autopilots make coordinated turns without control of the rudder?

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Ash Wyllie writes:

Looks like you found a simulator error.

Load a 172, and try very slow flight without using the rudder. Use power,
hold
altitude and keep slowing until you stall.

You should emd up in a spin.

Why would I do that? It has nothing to do with my question: How can
autopilots make coordinated turns without control of the rudder?

They don't moron, and you have been told. It's just not necessary. Sorry
your sim can't duplicate it.

Mxsmanic opined

Ash Wyllie writes:

Looks like you found a simulator error.

Load a 172, and try very slow flight without using the rudder. Use power,
hold altitude and keep slowing until you stall.

You should emd up in a spin.

Why would I do that? It has nothing to do with my question: How can
autopilots make coordinated turns without control of the rudder?

1) To test the simulator.

2) Newer light aircraft are designed so that at cruise speed and small aileron
deflections rudder input is not needed.


-ash
Cthulhu in 2007!
Why wait for nature?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Ash Wyllie writes:

Looks like you found a simulator error.

Load a 172, and try very slow flight without using the rudder. Use
power, hold altitude and keep slowing until you stall.

You should emd up in a spin.

Why would I do that? It has nothing to do with my question: How can
autopilots make coordinated turns without control of the rudder?

it has everythign to do wiht your question, fjukktard.


Bertie

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
...
Except I do see adverse yaw in turns in my (simulated) Baron, so either
the
simulation is in error, or the AP knows something about making coordinated
turns without rudder input that I do not.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up. Either your simulation is in error, or you
havn't mastered the basics yet.

Mystery solved.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
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