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VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 17th 08, 03:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Terence Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

When flying a VOR approach in which the FAF is defined by the VOR, is
it appropriate to start the descent to the MAP, or next stepdown,
immediately after overflying the VOR or should I wait until I have
positive course guidance for the final approach segment?

I ask because it can sometimes take 1-2nm for the CDI to move, which
may require a rushed descent to the MAP on some approaches.
  #2  
Old February 17th 08, 04:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
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Posts: 1,326
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

Terence Wilson wrote:
When flying a VOR approach in which the FAF is defined by the VOR, is
it appropriate to start the descent to the MAP, or next stepdown,
immediately after overflying the VOR or should I wait until I have
positive course guidance for the final approach segment?

I ask because it can sometimes take 1-2nm for the CDI to move, which
may require a rushed descent to the MAP on some approaches.


Are you a simulator only pilot?

I ask, because that is a question that would be answered during
instrument training.
  #3  
Old February 17th 08, 01:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 46
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:56:05 -0800, Terence Wilson
wrote:

When flying a VOR approach in which the FAF is defined by the VOR, is
it appropriate to start the descent to the MAP, or next stepdown,
immediately after overflying the VOR or should I wait until I have
positive course guidance for the final approach segment?

I ask because it can sometimes take 1-2nm for the CDI to move, which
may require a rushed descent to the MAP on some approaches.


Good question. Yes you may. Don't have the aim or far in front of
me, but I've always waited for first positive indication of the FROM
indicator. You do not need pos course guidance to start descent.

  #4  
Old February 17th 08, 03:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 156
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

On Feb 17, 7:00*am, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:56:05 -0800, Terence Wilson
wrote:

When flying a VOR approach in which the FAF is defined by the VOR, is
it appropriate to start the descent to the MAP, or next stepdown,
immediately after overflying the VOR or should I wait until I have
positive course guidance for the final approach segment?


I ask because it can sometimes take 1-2nm for the CDI to move, which
may require a rushed descent to the MAP on some approaches.


Good question. * Yes you may. *Don't have the aim or far in front of
me,


You do if you're online. Just Google "Aeronautical Information
Manual" or "CFRs". (I don't find that information in those documents,
however. But perhaps I didn't look in the right places.)

but I've always waited for first positive indication of the FROM
indicator. *You do not need pos course guidance to start descent.


  #5  
Old February 17th 08, 08:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Terence Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:01:14 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:

Terence Wilson wrote:
When flying a VOR approach in which the FAF is defined by the VOR, is
it appropriate to start the descent to the MAP, or next stepdown,
immediately after overflying the VOR or should I wait until I have
positive course guidance for the final approach segment?

I ask because it can sometimes take 1-2nm for the CDI to move, which
may require a rushed descent to the MAP on some approaches.


Are you a simulator only pilot?

I ask, because that is a question that would be answered during
instrument training.


Sam, I think you asked me that question before and I answered .

I'm a RW instrument student.
  #6  
Old February 18th 08, 02:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Bob F.
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Posts: 76
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

"Terence Wilson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:01:14 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:

Terence Wilson wrote:
When flying a VOR approach in which the FAF is defined by the VOR, is
it appropriate to start the descent to the MAP, or next stepdown,
immediately after overflying the VOR or should I wait until I have
positive course guidance for the final approach segment?

I ask because it can sometimes take 1-2nm for the CDI to move, which
may require a rushed descent to the MAP on some approaches.


Are you a simulator only pilot?

I ask, because that is a question that would be answered during
instrument training.


Sam, I think you asked me that question before and I answered .

I'm a RW instrument student.



The step down altitudes are shown on the IAP. You should try to get down to
that altitude as soon as practical so that you can stop the altitude descent
and start concentrating on looking for the airport. You do realize that
except for this case (VOR at FAF) in the last few seconds as you cross over
the VOR, if you get a full deflected CDI, it's time for missed approach.
Just a final thought. There is no legal requirement to descend at all.
You could stay at the initial altitude until you reach the MAP and then
circle down. You might no see the airport though. The only reason I would
think you might keep this in mind is if you had an emergency situation and
wanted to hold on to altitude as long as possible (very rough engine). You
would just give up altitude as you felt safe.
BobF.

  #7  
Old February 18th 08, 04:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,326
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

Terence Wilson wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:01:14 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:


Terence Wilson wrote:

When flying a VOR approach in which the FAF is defined by the VOR, is
it appropriate to start the descent to the MAP, or next stepdown,
immediately after overflying the VOR or should I wait until I have
positive course guidance for the final approach segment?

I ask because it can sometimes take 1-2nm for the CDI to move, which
may require a rushed descent to the MAP on some approaches.


Are you a simulator only pilot?

I ask, because that is a question that would be answered during
instrument training.



Sam, I think you asked me that question before and I answered .

I'm a RW instrument student.


Forgive me my lousy memory. I figured your CFI-I would have covered
this by now.

When the two-from indicator indicated "from," you should turn to the
appropriate heading and begin descent at that time. You are effectively
on-course because you are over the station where the courses are very,
very small. Sort of like lines of longitude at the North Pole.
  #8  
Old February 19th 08, 01:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Terence Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:24:39 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:

Forgive me my lousy memory. I figured your CFI-I would have covered
this by now.


I'm sure he did, but I'm empty-headed and it's just as easy to check
here rather than wait for my next lesson.

Thanks for the info.
  #9  
Old February 19th 08, 12:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Les Izmore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:24:39 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:

Terence Wilson wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:01:14 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:


Terence Wilson wrote:

When flying a VOR approach in which the FAF is defined by the VOR, is
it appropriate to start the descent to the MAP, or next stepdown,
immediately after overflying the VOR or should I wait until I have
positive course guidance for the final approach segment?

I ask because it can sometimes take 1-2nm for the CDI to move, which
may require a rushed descent to the MAP on some approaches.

Are you a simulator only pilot?

I ask, because that is a question that would be answered during
instrument training.



Sam, I think you asked me that question before and I answered .

I'm a RW instrument student.


Forgive me my lousy memory. I figured your CFI-I would have covered
this by now.

When the two-from indicator indicated "from," you should turn to the
appropriate heading and begin descent at that time. You are effectively
on-course because you are over the station where the courses are very,
very small. Sort of like lines of longitude at the North Pole.



Now, the question is, when you are 2 miles from the VOR and the needle
still has not moved (because of bad navigation, winds, whatever),and
you have descended xhundred feet, what do you do?


Are you going back up? Probably not.

Starting down without at least some indication that the needle is
moving back towards center can very well be the beginning of the
pernicious and well-known accident chain.

Don't do it.



  #10  
Old February 19th 08, 02:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,326
Default VOR approach- when to descend from the FAF

Les Izmore wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:24:39 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:


Terence Wilson wrote:

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:01:14 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:



Terence Wilson wrote:


When flying a VOR approach in which the FAF is defined by the VOR, is
it appropriate to start the descent to the MAP, or next stepdown,
immediately after overflying the VOR or should I wait until I have
positive course guidance for the final approach segment?

I ask because it can sometimes take 1-2nm for the CDI to move, which
may require a rushed descent to the MAP on some approaches.

Are you a simulator only pilot?

I ask, because that is a question that would be answered during
instrument training.


Sam, I think you asked me that question before and I answered .

I'm a RW instrument student.


Forgive me my lousy memory. I figured your CFI-I would have covered
this by now.

When the two-from indicator indicated "from," you should turn to the
appropriate heading and begin descent at that time. You are effectively
on-course because you are over the station where the courses are very,
very small. Sort of like lines of longitude at the North Pole.




Now, the question is, when you are 2 miles from the VOR and the needle
still has not moved (because of bad navigation, winds, whatever),and
you have descended xhundred feet, what do you do?


Are you going back up? Probably not.

Starting down without at least some indication that the needle is
moving back towards center can very well be the beginning of the
pernicious and well-known accident chain.

Don't do it.



That would represent issues of lack of competency to be 2 miles from the
station and not have a needle moving back towards center. In fact the
needle should be moving back towards center far sooner than that.
 




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