Towpilot fatality in Oregon

Sorry about the lawyer comment. *I hope it's not true.

Gary, I too hope it's not true about the lawyers. But if it is, and I
suspect it is, you have nothing to apologize for. Your reporting on
this tragedy has been both restrained and informative. Anyone who
complains should be embarrassed to use their real name!

Oh, wait ...

-ted/2NO

I once *almost* caused a tug upset flying an Olympia 463, also only fitted
with a belly hook. Aerotowing towards the ridge at Talgarth, the glider
was suddenly pushed up by either thermal or ridge lift. The glider
continued to go up relative to the tug even though by now I had the stick
hard forward against the stop. This was after the accidents mentioned
below, so I realised what was happening and released immediately. As it
happened, the piece of knotted twine that Talgarth used as a weak link at
the time also broke at the same moment, so we lost a pair of Tost rings.
If found, please return to the club!

Having checked that the Pawnee tug was still flying and in one piece, I
was able to get onto the ridge and soared for several hours. I apologised
to the tuggie afterwards, but he said that I had acted correctly and not
caused him any real problems. I did get a ticking off for losing the Tost
rings though!

Derek Copeland


At 23:46 08 September 2009, Colin Wray wrote:

It was a Ka6 (also with CofG hook only) that was involved in the death
of the Dunstable tow pilot, and a Ka6 which nearly killed me around
the same time.

No kiting was involved in my case, the glider pilot gradually got too
high, which I was well aware of, and then increased speed in an
attempt to find the tow plane. With the tension removed from the rope
I assumed he had sorted it out (this is a BIG mistake), and when he
gave up and slowed down, the jerk on the rope snapped the tug 90 deg
nose down in a fraction of a second.

It took 400 ft to recover, which was below hedge height.

Chris Rollings wrote:

The graphic in the BGA Instructors Manual was based on the photos
mentioned
(as was an Australian Safety Poster from around that time). The Ka18
isn't particularly prone to the accident, it's just that the small
number imported into the UK all only had C of G Hooks, no nose hooks,
but
were quite often aerotowed with low experience pilots. The problem can
arise with anything aerotowed on a C of G Hook. When we bought two
used
Ka18's from Dunstable at around that time we did not allow them on
site
until nose-hooks were fitted.

There were never as many as three or four such fatals in one year in
the
UK, but a year with two such accidents was enought to start us on the
tests described, as Booker was the busiest aerotow operation in the UK
at
that time and I wanted to try to ensure we never had one.

The standard towing position was not moved down, it remained unchanged.

To go to a lower towing position (or worse still to trasit to
"low-tow")
would put the glider close to, or in, the turbulent prop wash and wake
of
the tow-plane, and getting bounced around by that is one of the
possible
causes of the momentary, inadvertant, pitch-up that can cause the
accident.

As in almost all phases of flight the glider should be trimmed for as
close to zero forward or back pressure on the stick as can be pre-set.
Having to hold a substantial back-pressure on the stick would be
un-helpful.

In the last sentance delete the word "almost".


At 11:00 07 September 2009, Derek Copeland wrote:
At 20:10 06 September 2009, OregonGliderPilot wrote:

GARY BOGGS;705095 Wrote:
Are any of the pictures still around? I would love to see them.
I'm
sure others would too.

Gary Boggs

I think they were posted on the BGA website once?

OGP

I have looked in the BGA website, but can't find these photos. If you
have access to the BGA Instructors Manual there is a graphic in
Section
17
which shows the sequence of events. It shows that if the glider gets
too
high and kites on a belly hook, the tug can be pulled into a stalled
and
near vertically downwards attitude within 3 seconds! There is a note
saying that it takes at least 800 feet to recover from this!

At about the time I started gliding in the early 1980s, I remember
there
were three or four such accidents to tugs in one year in the UK, all
unfortunately fatal. Also from memory I think most of them involved
K18s
fitted only with belly hooks. This type is particularly prone to kite.

As a result of these and the Booker experiments, the standard towing
position was moved down a bit and glider pilots were briefed to
release
if
they started to get significantly too high or lost sight of the tug
altogether. Also tug rope releases where improved to make them more
accessible to the pilot, and there was a recommendation that all new
gliders should be fitted with nose hooks for aerotowing.

The main danger of getting too high is shortly after take off, when
the
combination is still accelerating and the glider's wings are making
more
and more lift due the increasing airspeed. The glider pilot needs to
keep
easing the stick forward so that the glider does not get much higher
than
the top of the tug's tail fin. It is probably a good idea to trim
well
forward for this stage of the launch. If a tug upset does occur at
this
stage of the launch there is almost no chance of the tug pilot being
able
to recover before hitting the deck.

Derek Copeland

I once *almost* caused a tug upset flying an Olympia 463, also only fitted
with a belly hook. Aerotowing towards the ridge at Talgarth, the glider
was suddenly pushed up by either thermal or ridge lift. The glider
continued to go up relative to the tug even though by now I had the stick
hard forward against the stop. This was after the accidents mentioned
below, so I realised what was happening and released immediately. As it
happened, the piece of knotted twine that Talgarth used as a weak link at
the time also broke at the same moment, so we lost a pair of Tost rings.
If found, please return to the club!

How does that work, was the towplane not in the same thermal or ridge
lift?

-Paul

Well it definitely happened. Maybe the little lightweight Oly was more
affected by the lift than the Pawnee. The point is that once you get high
on a belly hook aerotow, you may get to a point of no return. I should
also mention that this was the only occasion when this has happened to me,
despite the fact that most of my gliders have been belly hook only.

Derek Copeland

At 13:44 10 September 2009, sisu1a wrote:
I once *almost* caused a tug upset flying an Olympia 463, also only
fitted
with a belly hook. Aerotowing towards the ridge at Talgarth, the
glider
was suddenly pushed up by either thermal or ridge lift. The glider
continued to go up relative to the tug even though by now I had the
stick
hard forward against the stop. This was after the accidents mentioned
below, so I realised what was happening and released immediately. As
it
happened, the piece of knotted twine that Talgarth used as a weak link
at
the time also broke at the same moment, so we lost a pair of Tost
rings.
If found, please return to the club!

How does that work, was the towplane not in the same thermal or ridge
lift?

-Paul

Derek Copeland wrote:
Well it definitely happened. Maybe the little lightweight Oly was more
affected by the lift than the Pawnee. The point is that once you get high
on a belly hook aerotow, you may get to a point of no return. I should
also mention that this was the only occasion when this has happened to me,
despite the fact that most of my gliders have been belly hook only.

Derek Copeland

At 13:44 10 September 2009, sisu1a wrote:
I once *almost* caused a tug upset flying an Olympia 463, also only
fitted
with a belly hook. Aerotowing towards the ridge at Talgarth, the
glider
was suddenly pushed up by either thermal or ridge lift. The glider
continued to go up relative to the tug even though by now I had the
stick
hard forward against the stop. This was after the accidents mentioned
below, so I realised what was happening and released immediately. As
it
happened, the piece of knotted twine that Talgarth used as a weak link
at
the time also broke at the same moment, so we lost a pair of Tost
rings.
If found, please return to the club!
How does that work, was the towplane not in the same thermal or ridge
lift?

-Paul

Glider has completely different response to vertical air mass movement.
The tug has much higher inertia compared to the glider and wing loading
is also much lower - that's why they thermal better than Pawnees.
Consequently when transiting thermals and down drafts the tug moves, but
typically less than a lightly loaded vintage - high wing loading glass
is less affected.

Bruce wrote:

Derek Copeland wrote:
Well it definitely happened. Maybe the little lightweight Oly was more
affected by the lift than the Pawnee. The point is that once you get high
on a belly hook aerotow, you may get to a point of no return. I should
also mention that this was the only occasion when this has happened to me,
despite the fact that most of my gliders have been belly hook only.

Derek Copeland

At 13:44 10 September 2009, sisu1a wrote:
I once *almost* caused a tug upset flying an Olympia 463, also only
fitted
with a belly hook. Aerotowing towards the ridge at Talgarth, the
glider
was suddenly pushed up by either thermal or ridge lift. The glider
continued to go up relative to the tug even though by now I had the
stick
hard forward against the stop. This was after the accidents mentioned
below, so I realised what was happening and released immediately. As
it
happened, the piece of knotted twine that Talgarth used as a weak link
at
the time also broke at the same moment, so we lost a pair of Tost
rings.
If found, please return to the club!
How does that work, was the towplane not in the same thermal or ridge
lift?

-Paul

Glider has completely different response to vertical air mass movement.
The tug has much higher inertia compared to the glider and wing loading
is also much lower - that's why they thermal better than Pawnees.
Consequently when transiting thermals and down drafts the tug moves, but
typically less than a lightly loaded vintage - high wing loading glass
is less affected.

The tug also leaves the thermal before the glider.

I forgot to mention that in my upset event, the pitch down was so
rapid that the whole contents of the luggage space behind the rear
seat of the PA18 was dumped on my head. Sundry spare ropes etc.

sisu1a wrote:
How does that work, was the towplane not in the same thermal or ridge
lift?

-Paul

Many UK thermals where I fly are narrow and sharp-edged. A couple of
weeks ago I was hurled up *way* above the tug (I needed to pitch the
nose down maybe 30 degrees to maintain it in sight), and was about to
release when it all started to come back together and I regained
attitude control in relation to the tug. This was only at around 200ft,
probably aggravated by the effect of some building immediately upwind.

I discussed this afterwards with the tug pilot, who is a former senior
examiner and very experienced. He said he was happy at all times, as I'd
immediately put the nose down and had enough slack in the rope not to be
pulling up the tug's tail. He told me the critical matter was whether
the glider pilot still has pitch control - if not, as described by
Derek, you have seconds or less to pull the release before the tug loses
control.

On Sep 10, 1:23*pm, Chris Reed wrote:
sisu1a wrote:
How does that work, was the towplane not in the same thermal or ridge
lift?

-Paul

Many UK thermals where I fly are narrow and sharp-edged. A couple of
weeks ago I was hurled up *way* above the tug (I needed to pitch the
nose down maybe 30 degrees to maintain it in sight), and was about to
release when it all started to come back together and I regained
attitude control in relation to the tug. This was only at around 200ft,
probably aggravated by the effect of some building immediately upwind.

I discussed this afterwards with the tug pilot, who is a former senior
examiner and very experienced. He said he was happy at all times, as I'd
immediately put the nose down and had enough slack in the rope not to be
pulling up the tug's tail. He told me the critical matter was whether
the glider pilot still has pitch control - if not, as described by
Derek, you have seconds or less to pull the release before the tug loses
control.

I must add that this is a great discussion, and I wish it had higher
audience then RAS readers. Whether this is the cause of the Oregon
fatality or not, it is very informative. I don't think many pilots are
aware that with a CG hook, you may not be able to correct an upset. I
flew many years with a CG hook believing that the only risk is the
reduced lateral control during the begining of the takeoff run. This
discussion will certainly make me a safer pilot.

Ramy

On Sep 10, 2:21*pm, Ramy wrote:

I flew many years with a CG hook believing that the only risk is the
reduced lateral control during the begining of the takeoff run. This
discussion will certainly make me a safer pilot.

If you really believe that you MUST release immediately if you lose
sight of the tug then the reason it happened should not matter.

What is far more dangerous than flying with a CG hook is the
combination of a glider that has insufficient forward trim, an
inexperienced solo pilot, and a tug hook known not to release under
load. Yet this situation exists at many US sites that operate the 2-33
and have the non inverted (hook opens upwards) Schweizer hook
installation on the tug. The combination has killed more than one tug
pilot and will probably take a few more.

Andy

*The combination has killed more than one tug
pilot and will probably take a few more.

Andy

This thought has been haunting me for quite a while now. It seems to
me that we need to change the way we train our glider pilots AND our
tow pilots. I think tow pilots need to start regularly practicing
pulling the release when the glider gets too high. If he has never
practiced this maneuver, which 99.9% of tow pilots haven't, they will
never do it in an actual tow going bad! From the accounts here, both
pilots have very little time to react, and if either pilot hesitates,
it might be another fatality. Glider pilots regularly practice rope
breaks so that our reactions are correct and rapid. I’m going to
start retraining all my tug drivers to give the glider pilot the rope
if he gets too high and our glider pilots to just pull the release
when he gets too high instead of attempting recovery.

I have emailed Oregon Glider Pilot and asked him who he is but he’s
not telling. How about it OGP, who are you?