US Competition Pilot Poll and Election

Luke is right when he says the biggest challenge for youth in North America is the limited access they have to gliders that can be flown XC or taken to a contest. Solving this problem should be a top priority at the club level - make a club class ship available to people (especially youth) to fly XC or at contests and make sure it has a good working trailer. Sandhill Soaring Club is working to solve that issue this winter (consolidating a portion of its fleet to acquire a quality club class ship) and require rigging practice and dual XC instruction as part of its student pilot training syllabus, regardless of whether the FAA requires such practical training or not. In other words, if you don't expose the student pilot to XC and get their feet wet they're a whole lot less likely to have the confidence to cut the apron strings themselves after their PPG checkride. I also hope to get some of these youngsters (in their 20-30's) to go ride (fly) backseat with KS (or anyone) with a Duo. Get'em hook'd!

As for the cost associated with having a Club Class ship available for use by Juniors and other young pilots, the cost for a club to acquire a G-102, Std. Jantar, or Std. Cirrus is under $20k. This is quite reasonable when you think about it. It makes no sense to prohibit club members from flying these ships at a regionals. I'm told the Canadian Nationals leader-board was largely made up of Juniors. Is this right? How do you guys do it at SOSA and elsewhere?

Chris Schrader
Treasurer @ Sandhill Soaring Club, Gregory, MI, SSA Region 6

Bruce. In Canada the typical employee has 10 vacation days. This "may" go up to 15 after 5 years and 20 days after 10 years of employment with the same company. My understanding is that this is simillar if not worse in the US.

Luke

Yes, the 2016 Canadian Club Class Nationals were dominated by younger pilots - it was fantastic to see!

At SOSA we have an extremely XC friendly club culture. We have top level pilots (XG,F1,MS,JS,A1 to mention a few) who act as mentors. We are also lucky to have a good single seat fleet; 3 SZD Juniors for solo and early XC as well as 2 LS4 gliders for advanced XC. The successive boards have been generous in allowing the use of at least one junior and one ls4 (typically more) at local and remote contests. Our DG505 (for sale http://wingsandwheels.com/class/classified.php?id=1792 sorry.. couldn't resist) will usually participate with a senior pilot taking budding XC pilots in the front cockpit. Having said that there is still heavy dwmand on the club fleet. When some funds became available we ended up buying a Jantar Std.2 specifically for the junior pilots - this is not a club owned ship. Some private owners also allow juniors to fly their gliders under various arrangements. Other clubs around our area seem to be working at promoting XC as well which is encouraging.

Luke

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 2:29:40 PM UTC-4, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 7:16:44 PM UTC+2, Tango Eight wrote:

I'm not opposed to this. But there someone has to publish a lot of background info so that well informed choices can be made. Sean, bless his heart, isn't dong a very good job of that right now (because with him what isn't personal is some dark conspiracy), so maybe *you* can give it a try.


That is an important point. If we are going to ask people to voice an opinion on something with all kinds complexities and non-obvious implications, we will need to adequately specify the question(s) or the answers will be the proverbial "garbage in - garbage out". That's not a trivial task. The RC agonizes over how to ask questions for issues that are on people's minds in a way that avoids uninformed feedback as much as possible. Sometimes we succeed at it.

Having just gone through the task of figuring out how to poll on a far, far simpler set of questions on US rules complexity this year and having tried, personally, to start a side-by-side "FAI to US" rules comparison about a year ago I have come to the conclusion that just asking a hypothetical question (at minimum for anyone who hasn't flown both FAI and US rules) "Adopt FAI rules in the US - Y/N?" in a poll would do more harm than good. It would be used as a bludgeon by the proponents of the response with more votes and attacked as a "clearly biased" or "inadequate" question by proponents of the response with fewer votes, so hip-shooting a poll question is, IMHO, a terrible idea. It'll take some further work to figure out what question(s) might be useful and constructive - starting with a clear description of the "proposal" and at least some factual analysis of the most important differences and their implications - like this year's "rules complexity" questions, with considerably more explanation of issues and implications. Then we might get a somewhat more informed read.

Or we can just have a food fight about it.

I fully expect this topic to come up at the November RC meeting.

9B

============================================

(...the following has been pecked out quickly on my cell, as usual. My apology for any spelling errors...)

Wow. I see the RAS crazies are out again, foaming at the mouth, as usual. Amusing as always, but a distraction from the very simple questions that I asked and nobody is answering. Especially the US RC and the alumni.

Again...

QUESTION 1a)
WHAT MEASURED VALUE JUSTIFIES THE CONTINUED MAINTAINCE OF OUR (UNIQUE, ISOLATIONIST) US SOARING COMPETITION RULES?

There should be tons, because the US rules are "so great" and the FAI rules are "evil," right?

List them here for me ...

QUESTION 1b)
WHAT MEASURED VALUE DOES OUR RUNNING US CONTESTS UNDER THE US SOARING COMPETITION RULES PROVIDE THE USA AS A SOARING COUNTRY?

Relevant measures of value might be:
- Increased growth to the sport of competition soaring measured in the USA as compared to other countries who dare to use those "evil" FAI rules?
- High pilot satisfaction measured with US contests and stable, growing or planned higher participation in the future.
- More US contest participation measured vs. those other countries who use those "evil" FAI rules.
- contests that are considerably more enjoyable and easier to run when measured against FAI.
- More satisfying and comprehensive tasks measured by pilots who have flown both FAI and US rules.
- Easier to use scoring software vs FAI....?
- More stable rules? Not having to endure constant changes and constant arguments each year about (for example) ridiculous anti-technology policy.
- Having people who can easily score US rules with a brief tutorial? If we cannot do this, it's a broken sport and needs to be fixed in a hurry.
- Increased contest pilot skills when measured against pilots who fly FAI contest rules?
- Improved International competition (WGC) results? If, per the line of crap fed to us by"....," US rules and tasking philosophy (cough, cough) is so great, and we fly more, higher quality, weather guessing tasks, etc, in the USA as a result, shouldn't are US pilots be killing it at the WGC vs. FAI pilots who are limited to only TAT and AT? pause........ Exactly.
- More excitement and passion about flying contests and competing in contests? Especially from youth.
- Lots of Jr. pilots flocking into the sport, our contests, and our clubs wanting to compete in contests with our cool, superior rules?

QUESTION 2) WHAT IS THE MEASURED COST TO THE US SOARING COMMUNITY FOR CHOOSING TO MAINTAIN OUR OWN (UNIQUE, ISOLATIONIST) US SOARING COMPETITION RULES AND NOT BE PART OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION COMMUNITY?

Relevant costs:
- The cost of having to focus the time and energy of 4 RC committee members, an SSA representative to focus on this topic each year vs. perhaps other SSA volunteer functions of greater value.
- The cost maintaining Winscore
- The cost of the constant arguments over our own rules which have proven to be highly unstable and change continuously.
- US pilots having to settle for our own isolated US pilot ranking list which nobody else on earth could really give two craps about. Vs. the FAI ranking list which includes pilots from all countries (community, rivalry, belonging...) although US contests are rarely added to the list so the rankings are not relevant. http://igcrankings.fai.org
- I could go on and on and on....
- Etc, etc.

QUESTION 3) WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN MEASURED COST/VALUE BETWEEN CONTINUING TO MAINTAIN THE (UNIQUE/ISOLATIONIST) US RULES ANNUALLY AND SIMPLY USING THE FAI RULES WHICH ARE FULLY SUPPORTED, READY TO GO AND HAPPILY, SAFELY AND SUCCESSFULLY USED BY LITERALLY ALL (-- YES, ALL!) OTHER SOARING NATIONS?

The USA could change to FAI in 30 seconds flat. This is not delicate. This is a religion for you folks. I could run an FAI contest easily, right now, starting tomorrow in Ionia and so could anyone else. Give me a break! This is not complicated. It's a matter of religion vs. economy of scale and being part of the international community.

Sean your boldness is impressive.

But the truth is hardly anybody wants to stand up to the old crusty political figures in Soaring. That's why many won't publicly agree with you, they'd rather use an alias or remain silent.

The silent majority HAS voted in these polls, with their actions as they have one by one quit the sport.

Here is the reality. The legacy that the SSA leadership will leave behind is years of poor attendance with a steady demise. They can stand up at every convention and talk about how they will do this or that, but the truth is, they are failing. It is CRYSTAL clear, that the leadership is perfectly OK with the slow and steady demise in soaring. Actions speak louder than words.

This is the legacy they leave behind. They will blame it on all kinds of excuses, excuses and more excuses. Then they will point on one very small example has improved, but not talk about the entire sport dwindling.

Then the demise of the sport and the poor performance in the world championships is their legacy. They will be remembered by all of us for what they did not accomplish.

On 10/13/2016 5:08 PM, wrote:
Sean your boldness is impressive. *** In your own mind, but your creativity is top notch! ***

But the truth is hardly anybody wants to stand up to the old crusty political figures in Soaring. That's why many won't publicly agree with you, they'd rather use an alias or remain silent. *** Unlike you, Wilbur, who always uses your real name! ***

The silent majority HAS voted in these polls, with their actions as they have one by one quit the sport. *** Or maybe the new folks are too tied up with their electronics or put off by the safety nazis. ***

Here is the reality. The legacy that the SSA leadership will leave behind is years of poor attendance with a steady demise. They can stand up at every convention and talk about how they will do this or that, but the truth is, they are failing. It is CRYSTAL clear, that the leadership is perfectly OK with the slow and steady demise in soaring. Actions speak louder than words.

This is the legacy they leave behind. They will blame it on all kinds of excuses, excuses and more excuses. Then they will point on one very small example has improved, but not talk about the entire sport dwindling.

Then the demise of the sport and the poor performance in the world championships is their legacy. They will be remembered by all of us for what they did not accomplish.

*** I have the answer - Hillary for contest committee chairman! She'll
run the contest committee like she did the State Department! ***

Now I think I'll go back to drinking. My name is below. No nom de guerre.

--
Dan, 5J

These "old crusty political figures" volunteer their time and energy. Many write articles to share their knowledge with the flock. I think it is bit too harsh to call the RC anything other than guys volunteering their time for a thankless job.


On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 4:08:34 PM UTC-7, wrote:
...
But the truth is hardly anybody wants to stand up to the old crusty political figures in Soaring. That's why many won't publicly agree with you, they'd rather use an alias or remain silent.

On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 8:54:51 AM UTC+13, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
These "old crusty political figures" volunteer their time and energy. Many write articles to share their knowledge with the flock. I think it is bit too harsh to call the RC anything other than guys volunteering their time for a thankless job.

If they didn't have to run and maintain a redundant set of rules then maybe they could volunteer their time for another better-thanked job?

Or crack open a cold one, of course.

Its been almost a week.

Again...
WHAT MEASURED VALUE JUSTIFIES THE CONTINUED MAINTAINCE OF OUR (UNIQUE, ISOLATIONIST) US SOARING COMPETITION RULES?

There should be tons, because the US rules are "so great" and the FAI rules are "evil," right?

Please list them here for me ...

Nothing? Nobody has an answer for me? Nobody can produce measured data to support and justify the continuation of the US rules CIRCUS?

This is simple manangement 101 folks. If there is no value in the spend, dont spend. So, why are we wasting all this time and effort on US rules when they provide us with NO MEASURABLE VALUE?

I'll ask again.

I ask those of you supporting the continuation of the US rules (circus) to answer my SIMPLE QUESTION.

Here it is ---

***What MEASURED VALUE justifies the continued maintenance of our (unique, isolationist, ineffective) US competition rules?***

Hint: This is not a trick question. This is a very simple. If you support the US rules (circus), then you should have TONS of MEASURED VALUE points to CLEARLY JUSTIFY why all the work, volunteer time, aggravation and argueing that has been the mainstay of the US rules commitee over the years has been worth it. And why it will continue to be worth it. What is the goal of US rules? Why do we do this? What is the expectation for improvement? Why are we continueing to do this, year after year after year? In my opinion, this is one of the most ridiculous things that I have ever seen in sports (and that is saying much).

Again, I'll try to help you get started here.. Valueable supporting data points justifying US rules vs FAI rules in the USA such as:

1) Higher contest numbers (people flocking to fly these great US contest and the GREAT TASKS!). NOPE.

2) The International community noticing. NOPE.

Better safety statistics. Less accidents. NOPE.

Less landouts. NOPE.

Better International Competition results? Since our rules are better, we should be flying more, learning mre and going faster. Should we not? NOPE.

Etc, Etc. NOPE. NOPE.

Why are we spending the time to carry forward rules which offer us NO VALUE?

I look forward to hearing (and debating) the supporting data that you provide us.

Sean
7T

I for one like the long MAT. Similar to an assigned task and when well set up it gives a chance for high performance and lower performance ships to compete on a reasonable basis and allows for a reasonable result for everyone to make it home. The IGC rules do not allow that kind of task

David Martin
ASG29E BV