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OLV GPS 36 approach question



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 5th 06, 11:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
A Lieberma
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Posts: 318
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question

Went out seeking some IMC time today. Severe clear at my home airport,
so took a trip from KMBO (Madison MS) to KOLV (Olive Branch MS)

Early morning clouds at OLV was 500 overcast, so I figured by the time I
got there, it would at least be broken. It wasn't the clouds that was
restricting the visibility so much as the haze. 2 mile forward viz at
best on my final approach.

Memphis Approach asked what approach I wanted and I elected GPS RWY 36
approach. I was at 4000 feet and about 10 miles out I was cleared to the
NOCAP initial approach fix, My instructions were descend and maintain
2,100, cleared for the GPS36 approach. My heading was 006 to the fix so
it was as easy as it gets to to intercepting the final approach course.

When I was looking at the profile part, before NOCAP I was to maintain
2800. So rather then descend to 2100, I maintained 2800 til I got to
NOCAP.

I didn't say anything / question the approach controller since the
frequency was wall to wall traffic, but I didn't want to hit anything
poking out of the ground either.

What is the overriding factor in this case (besides my PIC decision of
maintaining 2800)?

I can see where the controller got the 2100 figure which was the final
approach fix step down altitude, but I also didn't want to cause a
traffic conflict by maintaining 2800. So, I figured I'd have a better
chance at 2800 then 2100 as things poking out of the ground won't move
out of my way.

Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the controller
allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach chart?

Is a ASR in order or did I mess up somewhere?

Allen
  #2  
Old August 6th 06, 02:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
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Posts: 1,326
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question

A Lieberma wrote:

Went out seeking some IMC time today. Severe clear at my home airport,
so took a trip from KMBO (Madison MS) to KOLV (Olive Branch MS)

Early morning clouds at OLV was 500 overcast, so I figured by the time I
got there, it would at least be broken. It wasn't the clouds that was
restricting the visibility so much as the haze. 2 mile forward viz at
best on my final approach.

Memphis Approach asked what approach I wanted and I elected GPS RWY 36
approach. I was at 4000 feet and about 10 miles out I was cleared to the
NOCAP initial approach fix, My instructions were descend and maintain
2,100, cleared for the GPS36 approach. My heading was 006 to the fix so
it was as easy as it gets to to intercepting the final approach course.

When I was looking at the profile part, before NOCAP I was to maintain
2800. So rather then descend to 2100, I maintained 2800 til I got to
NOCAP.

I didn't say anything / question the approach controller since the
frequency was wall to wall traffic, but I didn't want to hit anything
poking out of the ground either.

What is the overriding factor in this case (besides my PIC decision of
maintaining 2800)?

I can see where the controller got the 2100 figure which was the final
approach fix step down altitude, but I also didn't want to cause a
traffic conflict by maintaining 2800. So, I figured I'd have a better
chance at 2800 then 2100 as things poking out of the ground won't move
out of my way.

Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the controller
allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach chart?

Is a ASR in order or did I mess up somewhere?

Allen


Chances are about 100% that the controller could vector you at 2,100.

There is an abundance of regulatory and training information about
vectors to an approach.
  #3  
Old August 6th 06, 03:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Ron Rosenfeld
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Posts: 264
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 22:15:07 GMT, A Lieberma wrote:

Went out seeking some IMC time today. Severe clear at my home airport,
so took a trip from KMBO (Madison MS) to KOLV (Olive Branch MS)

Early morning clouds at OLV was 500 overcast, so I figured by the time I
got there, it would at least be broken. It wasn't the clouds that was
restricting the visibility so much as the haze. 2 mile forward viz at
best on my final approach.

Memphis Approach asked what approach I wanted and I elected GPS RWY 36
approach. I was at 4000 feet and about 10 miles out I was cleared to the
NOCAP initial approach fix, My instructions were descend and maintain
2,100, cleared for the GPS36 approach. My heading was 006 to the fix so
it was as easy as it gets to to intercepting the final approach course.

When I was looking at the profile part, before NOCAP I was to maintain
2800. So rather then descend to 2100, I maintained 2800 til I got to
NOCAP.

I didn't say anything / question the approach controller since the
frequency was wall to wall traffic, but I didn't want to hit anything
poking out of the ground either.

What is the overriding factor in this case (besides my PIC decision of
maintaining 2800)?

I can see where the controller got the 2100 figure which was the final
approach fix step down altitude, but I also didn't want to cause a
traffic conflict by maintaining 2800. So, I figured I'd have a better
chance at 2800 then 2100 as things poking out of the ground won't move
out of my way.

Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the controller
allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach chart?

Is a ASR in order or did I mess up somewhere?

Allen


From what you describe, I think you should file an ASRS report. You wrote
that the controller instructed you to descend and maintain 2100', yet you
did not do so, nor did you question him. You could write in the ASRS
report that you did not question him because it of radio frequency
congestion.

On the other hand, since you started at 4000', you could also state that
you were just making a "gradual" descent :-).

Your impression as to where the controller got the 2100 figure from may be
wrong. He might have been looking at an MVA chart, which we as pilots do
not have access to.

Unless I were familiar with the area, I probably would have done what you
did.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)
  #4  
Old August 6th 06, 05:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
A Lieberma
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 318
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question

Sam Spade wrote in news:iBbBg.520$0F5.397@fed1read04:

Chances are about 100% that the controller could vector you at 2,100.

There is an abundance of regulatory and training information about
vectors to an approach.


Help me a little Sam on your reply as I am not quite sure I understand. :-)

I was cleared for the approach, not vectored so the navigation was put on
me. Based on the approach plate, from where I was coming from, within 30
miles I am to maintain 2800 unless I am misunderstanding something?

Allen

  #5  
Old August 6th 06, 02:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Dan Luke
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Posts: 678
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question


"A Lieberma" wrote:

I can see where the controller got the 2100 figure which was the final
approach fix step down altitude


I'll bet it was the local MVA. Controllers do not usually have much
information handy about outlying airports' approaches.

Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the controller
allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach chart?


Are you sure the controller didn't say "maintain *at or above* 2100..."?

The controller probably had no clue about the altitudes on the approach
plate, but did know the MVA in that area, and so included it in the
clearance.

http://tinyurl.com/jul8f

Is a ASR in order or did I mess up somewhere?


No to both.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM


  #6  
Old August 6th 06, 06:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Greg Esres
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Posts: 13
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question

Was I correct in maintaining 2800 before the IAF or is the
controller allowed to clear me below a minimum dictated by an approach
chart?


I often fly this same approach. On occasion, a controller will give
me a lower altitude than published, but when I say, "Skyhawk 1234X
requests 2800 to comply with the procedure", they always give it to
me.

Your controller made a mistake and you should have corrected it. His
instruction to descend and maintain 2,100 was an order, and
technically you were wrong to ignore it.

BTW, MVA in that area is probably 2,000 feet, so you were safe at
2,100, but not in compliance with the procedure.

Controllers make mistakes like this *all the time*, and you should be
spring-loaded to deal with it in a polite way.


  #7  
Old August 6th 06, 06:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Greg Esres
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Posts: 13
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question

Controllers do not usually have much information handy about
outlying airports' approaches.

This airport is only 10 miles from the Memphis Class B Airport, even
though it's in MS. At one time, this was the busiest airport in all
of Mississippi, due to flight training activities. The controllers
are intimately familiar with the approaches into this airport and most
of them know that the initial segments require 2,800.


  #8  
Old August 6th 06, 09:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
A Lieberma
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 318
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question

Greg Esres wrote in
:

Your controller made a mistake and you should have corrected it. His
instruction to descend and maintain 2,100 was an order, and
technically you were wrong to ignore it.


Appreciate your feedback Dan,

I kinda knew that I was not in the right by not complying, but not being
spring loaded as you said I should have been, I didn't want to cause any
commotion on the airwaves, as my goal was to fly the plane with the hopes I
could have gotten a clarification, but the frequency was really congested.

Even though I have had my IFR ticket for 2 years, every flight feels like
my first :-)

I didn't have the airport in sight due to forward viz being so low so I had
to stick with the numbers in front of me.

Allen
  #9  
Old August 6th 06, 09:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
A Lieberma
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 318
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question

Greg Esres wrote in
news
This airport is only 10 miles from the Memphis Class B Airport, even
though it's in MS. At one time, this was the busiest airport in all
of Mississippi, due to flight training activities.


Unfortunately the flight school no longer operates out of OLV per airport
personel, so traffic has been reduced substantially!

Sure was a pleasure not to fight merging into the pattern though, as I was
up here before the tower was built and I was told it's not unusual to have
4 to 6 planes in the pattern!

Allen
  #10  
Old August 6th 06, 09:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Greg Esres
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Posts: 13
Default OLV GPS 36 approach question

Even though I have had my IFR ticket for 2 years, every flight feels
like my first :-)

Perfectly understandable. Unless you fly profesionally, it takes
quite a long time years-wise to have encountered and digested most
types of situations.

I fly the approaches in this area over and over again with students,
so these approaches are more mine than the controller's. I'm used to
telling them how I want to fly them.

I doubt the controller even noticed that you didn't descend to the
altitude he gave you, or he would have said something.


 




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