*********A DEFENCE FOR MXMORAN***********

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
a writes:


It's not seen as 3D. As I've said, depth perception only works to up to
100
feet or so. The rest depends on visual cues that may or may not be
accurate.
Pilots who have misinterpreted the cues have regularly crashed and died.

Prove it dumb ass.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Ibby writes:

I fully appreciate in IMC conditions you
use your instruments fully and don't rely on what you can/cannot see
outside.

Sensations are largely useless in VMC, too. They are not any more
reliable
just because visibility is good. The reality is that you depend upon your
eyes in VMC. Close your eyes and fly by the seat of your pants alone, and
you'll be in trouble soon enough.

A big question asked by both myself
and MX is have those on here who have tried MSFS done it with good
quality commercial addon aircraft which are COMPLETELY different to
that which comes as standard on an FSX installation.

I seriously doubt it.

The default 747
is total **** and a kid could operate it compared to the highly
complex PMDG models.

It took me about two hours to figure out how to start a 737 with the PMDG
model. Most of that time was spent reading manuals. Fortunately, now I
can
do it from memory, most of the time (the 747, 767, and 737 all have
differences that can get confusing, so I have to fly them all periodically
to
maintain some semblance of currency).

You don't fly anything but a desk, retard.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

It's a recall task, not a comprehension task, and few people have perfect
recall.

You're living proof of that!

I've worked on approved PCATDs with 85 x 185 degree visuals and
10-12 bit flight controls. Ive got news for you simmers. Without
experiencing the motion that occurs in turbulence or periodic cross
winds, you don't much of a chance of dealing with them correctly when
they happen. Your instinct from years of driving cars is to turn into
the gust immediately, when the best course of action is to let the
aircraft self correct, then put it back on the average course as
needed. Of course if it flips the wing too far over you have to start
to correct. Its a judgement call that has to be learned, and its not
easy.

I have a friend who takes me up on long cross countries, and while
the sim helps on nav and dealing with the overwhelming visuals, it
does not prepare you to deal with the false motion cues your ears and
eyes can generate. You'll be too fixated on single instruments with no
scan patterns And I'm used to sims with 6 projectors and seamless
visual integration and good flight models.

How can I say this with confidence ? I'm trying to transition
from far better sims then you guys have access to to the real thing. I
need to fix my health some more to pass the medical. While my
"instructor" credits me with a wonderful basic set of nav skills, I'm
constantly "busted" for getting fixated and for overcontrolling as
well as excessive dive/climb rates. I'd like to see you guys correctly
adjust a heading knob and center the needle on the CDI on the first
shot Especially knowing 200 or so lives are depending on you doing it
right while keeping one hand on the yoke. Its not easy, especially if
your trying to talk while doing it.

Steve

wrote in message
...
I've worked on approved PCATDs with 85 x 185 degree visuals and
10-12 bit flight controls. Ive got news for you simmers. Without
experiencing the motion that occurs in turbulence or periodic cross
winds, you don't much of a chance of dealing with them correctly when
they happen. Your instinct from years of driving cars is to turn into
the gust immediately, when the best course of action is to let the
aircraft self correct, then put it back on the average course as
needed. Of course if it flips the wing too far over you have to start
to correct. Its a judgement call that has to be learned, and its not
easy.

I have a friend who takes me up on long cross countries, and while
the sim helps on nav and dealing with the overwhelming visuals, it
does not prepare you to deal with the false motion cues your ears and
eyes can generate. You'll be too fixated on single instruments with no
scan patterns And I'm used to sims with 6 projectors and seamless
visual integration and good flight models.

How can I say this with confidence ? I'm trying to transition
from far better sims then you guys have access to to the real thing. I
need to fix my health some more to pass the medical. While my
"instructor" credits me with a wonderful basic set of nav skills, I'm
constantly "busted" for getting fixated and for overcontrolling as
well as excessive dive/climb rates. I'd like to see you guys correctly
adjust a heading knob and center the needle on the CDI on the first
shot Especially knowing 200 or so lives are depending on you doing it
right while keeping one hand on the yoke. Its not easy, especially if
your trying to talk while doing it.

Steve

Exactly right Steve just as these folks, primarily MX, have been told so
many times before. But these guys would never let actual experience
interfere with their desired perception of reality. Absolutely nothing is
too difficult for a person that never has to actually do it.

This group is primarily made up of actual pilots, that are obviously a bit
above the norm on computer literacy. When these "kids", for lack of a better
word, show up assuming that none of us has any experience with PC based
flight simulation, they might as well stamp "STUPID" on their foreheads. But
Mx, and the occasional supporter from the sim groups, are a dedicated group.
In fact, their persistence does little more than strongly suggest they are
very young and inexperienced at a lot of things. Any real pilot can listen
to one talk as see major contradictions in their statements with what pilots
have learned from experience. The gust factors you mentioned, vertigo,
sudden weightlessness from turbulence, changes in engine/wind noise with
your ears pop, are just the beginning of a very long list of things they can
not, and do not, want to understand.

In article ,
says...


If they were easy, then a lot less time would be spent in pilot training
warning pilots about how deceptive visual cues can be, and a lot less time
would be spent teaching various clever ways to try to estimate distances.

Your resaerch has obviously led you astray. No time is spent teaching pilots
"clever ways to estimate distances" as this would be inconsistent with safety.
All information is presented in a way that precludes such estimations. In light
of your misconceptions, it is indeed fortunate that you are not a pilot, as you
would clearly be a dangerous one.


It's not seen as 3D. As I've said, depth perception only works to up to 100
feet or so. The rest depends on visual cues that may or may not be accurate.
Pilots who have misinterpreted the cues have regularly crashed and died.

No one can reguilarly crash and die. That is a one time event. Life differs
from simulation. Death also.

In article ,
says...


Ibby writes:

I fully appreciate in IMC conditions you
use your instruments fully and don't rely on what you can/cannot see
outside.

Sensations are largely useless in VMC, too. They are not any more reliable
just because visibility is good. The reality is that you depend upon your
eyes in VMC. Close your eyes and fly by the seat of your pants alone, and
you'll be in trouble soon enough.

I'm afraid you are once again quite mistaken.
Sensorial clues supported by visual clues are quite different from the former
without the latter, as is widely recognized in the pertinent literature. Close
your eyes in VMC, and you're not really in VMC anymoe, are you. . .


It took me about two hours to figure out how to start a 737 with the PMDG
model. Most of that time was spent reading manuals. Fortunately, now I can
do it from memory, most of the time (the 747, 767, and 737 all have
differences that can get confusing, so I have to fly them all periodically to
maintain some semblance of currency).

Not to worry - people regularly get confused when presented with tasks they
do not comprehend. Sometimes this can be fatal.

In article ,
says...


writes:

Wrong, try again.


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgi...-4Q8/0314046/L
/

Looks just like the sim.

Not shown are the dozens of switches and buttons on the overhead
panel.

That's okay, I know what they are and what they do already.

Fortunately, safe pilots are not so brazen. Instead of testosterone to assert
knowledge, they rely on documentation and they cross-check.

wrote in message
...
I've worked on approved PCATDs with 85 x 185 degree visuals and
10-12 bit flight controls. Ive got news for you simmers. Without
experiencing the motion that occurs in turbulence or periodic cross
winds, you don't much of a chance of dealing with them correctly when
they happen. Your instinct from years of driving cars is to turn into
the gust immediately, when the best course of action is to let the
aircraft self correct, then put it back on the average course as
needed. Of course if it flips the wing too far over you have to start
to correct. Its a judgement call that has to be learned, and its not
easy.

I have a friend who takes me up on long cross countries, and while
the sim helps on nav and dealing with the overwhelming visuals, it
does not prepare you to deal with the false motion cues your ears and
eyes can generate. You'll be too fixated on single instruments with no
scan patterns And I'm used to sims with 6 projectors and seamless
visual integration and good flight models.

How can I say this with confidence ? I'm trying to transition
from far better sims then you guys have access to to the real thing. I
need to fix my health some more to pass the medical. While my
"instructor" credits me with a wonderful basic set of nav skills, I'm
constantly "busted" for getting fixated and for overcontrolling as
well as excessive dive/climb rates. I'd like to see you guys correctly
adjust a heading knob and center the needle on the CDI on the first
shot Especially knowing 200 or so lives are depending on you doing it
right while keeping one hand on the yoke. Its not easy, especially if
your trying to talk while doing it.

Steve

Exactly right Steve just as these folks, primarily MX, have been told so
many times before. But these guys would never let actual experience
interfere with their desired perception of reality. Absolutely nothing is
too difficult for a person that never has to actually do it.

This group is primarily made up of actual pilots, that are obviously a bit
above the norm on computer literacy. When these "kids", for lack of a better
word, show up assuming that none of us has any experience with PC based
flight simulation, they might as well stamp "STUPID" on their foreheads. But
Mx, and the occasional supporter from the sim groups, are a dedicated group.
In fact, their persistence does little more than strongly suggest they are
very young and inexperienced at a lot of things. Any real pilot can listen
to one talk as see major contradictions in their statements with what pilots
have learned from experience. The gust factors you mentioned, vertigo,
sudden weightlessness from turbulence, changes in engine/wind noise with
your ears pop, are just the beginning of a very long list of things they can
not, and do not, want to understand.

In article ,
says...



Not to worry - people regularly get confused when presented with tasks
they
do not comprehend.

It's a recall task, not a comprehension task, and few people have perfect
recall.

Recall comes with repeated experience. Your present confusion is therfore
understandable, as is your present condition as a dangerous element in any
airplane.