FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

50 people signing a petition counter your viewpoint is not reality? I think the problem with the current leadership is worse than I imagined.

50 people signing a petition counter your viewpoint is not reality? I think the problem with the current leadership is worse than I imagined.

50 people signing a petition counter your viewpoint is not reality? I think the problem with the current leadership is worse than I imagined.

As someone new to competition, I have little to add about the subtleties of FAI vs. Sports Class rules. However, if the point of the petition is to grow participation in racing, Papa 3's data shows that this is almost irrelevant.

One's first few contests can be intimidating, so if we want to increase participation at races, one important way is to make pilots new to racing feel welcome and support them. I was fortunate at the Logan superregionals in 2011 and the Parowan Nationals this year to have several people go out of their way to help me (this is by no means a complete list):

EY Tim McAllister -- incredibly generous with his time as a mentor at Logan

BB John Cochrane -- at Logan, John retrieved me not once but twice after distant landouts (BTW this was when he was in 1st or 2nd, and if I'm not mistaken the Worlds were on the line. I am sure he would have preferred to be resting up for the next day rather than driving around Idaho at 11 pm)

KS Karl Striedick -- went out of his way to offer kind words after I had a good day at Parowan, which meant more to me than my lucky 4th placing

TT Tim Taylor -- many, many helpful suggestions at Parowan

There has been some passionate discussion here about changing a few rules. The rules are important, especially where they affect safety. However, I would suggest that some portion of that passion and excitement be saved for the gliderport, helping somebody with unfamiliar tail letters and perhaps no crew. Actions and attitude like those I was fortunate enough to benefit from will do more to keep new pilots, even those flying club ships like my LS-4, coming back and thus growing racing, than arguments over cylinders vs. start lines and ATs vs. TATs.

Respectfully,
Mark Schmidt / L4

As someone new to competition, I have little to add about the subtleties of FAI vs. Sports Class rules. However, if the point of the petition is to grow participation in racing, Papa 3's data shows that this is almost irrelevant.

One's first few contests can be intimidating, so if we want to increase participation at races, one important way is to make pilots new to racing feel welcome and support them. I was fortunate at the Logan superregionals in 2011 and the Parowan Nationals this year to have several people go out of their way to help me (this is by no means a complete list):

EY Tim McAllister -- incredibly generous with his time as a mentor at Logan

BB John Cochrane -- at Logan, John retrieved me not once but twice after distant landouts (BTW this was when he was in 1st or 2nd, and if I'm not mistaken the Worlds were on the line. I am sure he would have preferred to be resting up for the next day rather than driving around Idaho at 11 pm)

KS Karl Striedieck -- went out of his way to offer kind words after I had a good day at Parowan, which meant more to me than my lucky 4th placing

TT Tim Taylor -- many, many helpful suggestions at Parowan

There has been some passionate discussion here about changing a few rules. The rules are important, especially where they affect safety. However, I would suggest that some portion of that passion and excitement be saved for the gliderport, helping somebody with unfamiliar tail letters and perhaps no crew. Actions and attitude like those I was fortunate enough to benefit from will do more to keep new pilots, even those flying club ships like my LS-4, coming back and thus growing racing, than arguments over cylinders vs. start lines and ATs vs. TATs.

Respectfully,
Mark Schmidt / L4

As someone new to competition, I have little to add about the subtleties of FAI vs. Sports Class rules. However, if the point of the petition is to grow participation in racing, Papa 3's data shows that this is almost irrelevant.

One's first few contests can be intimidating, so if we want to increase participation at races, one important way is to make pilots new to racing feel welcome and support them. I was fortunate at the Logan superregionals in 2011 and the Parowan Nationals this year to have several people go out of their way to help me (this is by no means a complete list):

EY Tim McAllister -- incredibly generous with his time as a mentor at Logan

BB John Cochrane -- at Logan, John retrieved me not once but twice after distant landouts (BTW this was when he was in 1st or 2nd, and if I'm not mistaken the Worlds were on the line. I am sure he would have preferred to be resting up for the next day rather than driving around Idaho at 11 pm)

KS Karl Striedieck -- went out of his way to offer kind words after I had a good day at Parowan, which meant more to me than my lucky 4th placing

TT Tim Taylor -- many, many helpful suggestions at Parowan

There has been some passionate discussion here about changing a few rules. The rules are important, especially where they affect safety. However, I would suggest that some portion of that passion and excitement be saved for the gliderport, helping somebody with unfamiliar tail letters and perhaps no crew. Actions and attitude like those I was fortunate enough to benefit from will do more to keep new pilots, even those flying club ships like my LS-4, coming back and thus growing racing, than arguments over cylinders vs. start lines and ATs vs. TATs.

Respectfully,
Mark Schmidt / L4


On Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:37:09 PM UTC-8, Papa3 wrote:

I then asked those who hadn't competed in a regionals or nationals to rank the reasons for non-participation from 8 defined reasons plus a 9th "other" reason. The three LEAST important inhibitors we



- Panel and instruments not competitive (i.e. flight computer and other geewhiz gadgetry)

- Glider not competitive

- Rules complexity

As someone new to competition, I have little to add about the subtleties of FAI vs. Sports Class rules. However, if the point of the petition is to grow participation in racing, Papa 3's data shows that this is almost irrelevant.

One's first few contests can be intimidating, so if we want to increase participation at races, one important way is to make pilots new to racing feel welcome and support them. I was fortunate at the Logan superregionals in 2011 and the Parowan Nationals this year to have several people go out of their way to help me (this is by no means a complete list):

EY Tim McAllister -- incredibly generous with his time as a mentor at Logan

BB John Cochrane -- at Logan, John retrieved me not once but twice after distant landouts (BTW this was when he was in 1st or 2nd, and if I'm not mistaken the Worlds were on the line. I am sure he would have preferred to be resting up for the next day rather than driving around Idaho at 11 pm)

KS Karl Striedieck -- went out of his way to offer kind words after I had a good day at Parowan, which meant more to me than my lucky 4th placing

TT Tim Taylor -- many, many helpful suggestions at Parowan

There has been some passionate discussion here about changing a few rules. The rules are important, especially where they affect safety. However, I would suggest that some portion of that passion and excitement be saved for the gliderport, helping somebody with unfamiliar tail letters and perhaps no crew. Actions and attitude like those I was fortunate enough to benefit from will do more to keep new pilots, even those flying club ships like my LS-4, coming back and thus growing racing, than arguments over cylinders vs. start lines and ATs vs. TATs.

Respectfully,
Mark Schmidt / L4

On Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:37:09 PM UTC-8, Papa3 wrote:
I then asked those who hadn't competed in a regionals or nationals to rank the reasons for non-participation from 8 defined reasons plus a 9th "other" reason. The three LEAST important inhibitors we

- Panel and instruments not competitive (i.e. flight computer and other geewhiz gadgetry)
- Glider not competitive
- Rules complexity

On Friday, December 14, 2012 6:18:26 PM UTC-6, Mark Schmidt L4 wrote:
As someone new to competition, I have little to add about the subtleties of FAI vs. Sports Class rules. However, if the point of the petition is to grow participation in racing, Papa 3's data shows that this is almost irrelevant.



One's first few contests can be intimidating, so if we want to increase participation at races, one important way is to make pilots new to racing feel welcome and support them. I was fortunate at the Logan superregionals in 2011 and the Parowan Nationals this year to have several people go out of their way to help me (this is by no means a complete list):



EY Tim McAllister -- incredibly generous with his time as a mentor at Logan



BB John Cochrane -- at Logan, John retrieved me not once but twice after distant landouts (BTW this was when he was in 1st or 2nd, and if I'm not mistaken the Worlds were on the line. I am sure he would have preferred to be resting up for the next day rather than driving around Idaho at 11 pm)



KS Karl Striedieck -- went out of his way to offer kind words after I had a good day at Parowan, which meant more to me than my lucky 4th placing



TT Tim Taylor -- many, many helpful suggestions at Parowan



There has been some passionate discussion here about changing a few rules.. The rules are important, especially where they affect safety. However, I would suggest that some portion of that passion and excitement be saved for the gliderport, helping somebody with unfamiliar tail letters and perhaps no crew. Actions and attitude like those I was fortunate enough to benefit from will do more to keep new pilots, even those flying club ships like my LS-4, coming back and thus growing racing, than arguments over cylinders vs. start lines and ATs vs. TATs.



Respectfully,

Mark Schmidt / L4



On Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:37:09 PM UTC-8, Papa3 wrote:

I then asked those who hadn't competed in a regionals or nationals to rank the reasons for non-participation from 8 defined reasons plus a 9th "other" reason. The three LEAST important inhibitors we



- Panel and instruments not competitive (i.e. flight computer and other geewhiz gadgetry)

- Glider not competitive

- Rules complexity

bravo! A good first experience is a must.

I *almost* went to the last Region 7 contest in Albert Lea circa 2007. I was on failed barograph trace away from getting in, as I needed an approved silver distance flight to enter. It turned out the contest was rained out, the regional only flew one day. My club-mate and friend spent all week rigging and de-rigging and has hardly flown his glider since, and certainly hasn't flown a contest. In the end I was glad I didn't go, because it would've left me with a bad experience. Not to mention that I was completely unprepared, not really financially able to swing attending, had no idea what flying any closed course task was like let alone a contest task, even if the flying had been good i probably would've been totally overwhelmed.

Fast forward a few years and I had a great time at the 2010 Region 10 contest. Now I had money, knew what a contest task was, and had proved I could actually go somewhere and make it back. It worked out nicely that the contest was small (15-ish) and the weather was AWESOME. Even if I hadn't won 2 days and placed 3rd I would've had a great time. And it made me want to come back for more!

On Thursday, December 13, 2012 7:40:52 PM UTC+1, wrote:

We are proposing starting a new class, not excluding them (V1 and LS6)from an existing contest. So here is the question: Should V1's and LS6 stay in Sports Class under US Rules or be allowed in the new FAI US Club Class? I'd like to hear comments.

Sean Franke (HA)

Sean, I fly an LS6 and I will not fly sports for the same reason you wont fly sports: No speed tasks and ridiculous tasking if the Nimbus and 2-33 show up. Yuck.

I flew the 2011 Moriarty Super Regional, and liked it - and I've been flying handicapped in the ASA series for a long time, mainly AT and AATs.

I'm happy sticking to FAI 15M, even if (at least out West) i'm at a disadvantage - mainly because its still really me and not my glider that makes me slower than a -29 or V2 (most of the time...).

But I would like to have more race options, and by limiting the US Club to not including later 20s, LS6s, or V1s, you are keeping out a bunch of potential racers.

Seems to me, at the regional level, get the biggest crowd you can but task for the FAI class performance. At the national level, fine, limit to FAI if you want - anyone serious enough to go to a Nationals can find a club class glider to take. My experience at Moriarty was that being at the high end of the performance handicap range actually hurts - I would have done better, I think, if I had competed in the Modern class, trying to chase down the faster gliders, instead of trying to run away from the slower (!) ones...

Kirk
66

On Friday, December 14, 2012 11:52:39 PM UTC-8, kirk.stant wrote:
On Thursday, December 13, 2012 7:40:52 PM UTC+1, wrote:



We are proposing starting a new class, not excluding them (V1 and LS6)from an existing contest. So here is the question: Should V1's and LS6 stay in Sports Class under US Rules or be allowed in the new FAI US Club Class? I'd like to hear comments.



Sean Franke (HA)



Sean, I fly an LS6 and I will not fly sports for the same reason you wont fly sports: No speed tasks and ridiculous tasking if the Nimbus and 2-33 show up. Yuck.



I flew the 2011 Moriarty Super Regional, and liked it - and I've been flying handicapped in the ASA series for a long time, mainly AT and AATs.



I'm happy sticking to FAI 15M, even if (at least out West) i'm at a disadvantage - mainly because its still really me and not my glider that makes me slower than a -29 or V2 (most of the time...).



But I would like to have more race options, and by limiting the US Club to not including later 20s, LS6s, or V1s, you are keeping out a bunch of potential racers.



Seems to me, at the regional level, get the biggest crowd you can but task for the FAI class performance. At the national level, fine, limit to FAI if you want - anyone serious enough to go to a Nationals can find a club class glider to take. My experience at Moriarty was that being at the high end of the performance handicap range actually hurts - I would have done better, I think, if I had competed in the Modern class, trying to chase down the faster gliders, instead of trying to run away from the slower (!) ones....



Kirk

66

Kirk, great comments. Interesting thought about opening up handicap range at Regional contests to encourage participation.

Keep in mind for the first time ASW20 B and C's are excluded from current WGC. Maybe because the ASW20 is expected to be a formidable glider given soaring conditions in Argentina. Some say (others don't) that B and C's are better performing than ASW20 A. This is likely the reason for current exclusion because of WGC locaton.

For US Club Class purposes ALL 15 meter ASW20's (A,B and C) should be included.

You brought this thread back home. It's about a CHOICE.

For some reason the RC is against an FAI CHOICE. We have a significant voice from those who ACTUALLY will fly Club Class saying WE WANT US FAI CLUB CLASS. Why won't the RC support us, the customer? So far only the RC and a few who have no intention of flying Club Class are opposed.

Kirk, I hope to see more posts from pilots like you in support.

Sean Franke (HA)

Join the petition at: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/