How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Judah writes:

The sectional depicts the borders very clearly, and it depicts the
terrain surrounding those borders as well as any nearby navigation
aids.

Yes, but it provides no directions or dimensions (with a few
exceptions). Am I expected to pull out a protractor and a ruler in
flight to check the chart and see if I really am clear of airspaces I
wish to avoid?

No..... The answer is very clearly answered above.

Read it real slow, and just maybe you may get out of it, you use your
eyes......

The answer is clearly in Google. The news about the plane in NY crashing
into a condominium will sure give you real life examples to your questions
being asked.

DO YOUR RESEARCH as you claim and the answers are there.

Allen

You can also find the textual description on area. Or you
can use a chart to plot the lat/lon for any point.

SPECIAL USE AIRSPACE
(Military Operations Area)
04-AGL-63-NR & 05-AGL-18-NR
Racer A MOA, IN

Boundaries: Beginning at 39° 12' 30"N lat., 86° 09'
50"W long.,

to 39° 07' 36"N lat., 86° 08' 00"W long.,
to 39° 07' 36"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 39° 00' 00"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 38° 57' 48"N lat., 86° 01' 29"W long.,
to 38° 57' 48"N lat., 86° 16' 06"W long.,
to 39° 06' 00"N lat., 86° 15' 00"W long.,
to the point of beginning.

Designated altitudes: 500' AGL up to but not including
4,000' MSL.

Time of designation: May 1 through September 30,
0700-2200 local time daily; October 1 through April 30,
0800-2200 local time, Tuesday through Saturday, other times
by NOTAM; Racer A MOA will not be activated between
2200-0700 local time.

Controlling agency: FAA, Indianapolis ARTCC

Using agency: HQ IN ANG Det 1, Camp Atterbury,
Edinburgh, IN

Racer B MOA, IN

Boundaries: Beginning at 39° 12' 30"N lat., 86° 09'
50"W long.,

to 39° 07' 36"N lat., 86° 08' 00"W long.,
to 39° 07' 36"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 39° 00' 00"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 38° 57' 48"N lat., 86° 01' 29"W long.,
to 38° 57' 48"N lat., 86° 16' 06"W long.,
to 39° 06' 00"N lat., 86° 15' 00"W long.,
to the point of beginning.

Designated altitudes: 4,000' MSL up to 8,000' MSL.

Time of designation: May 1 through September 30,
0700-2200 local time daily; October 1 through April 30,
0800-2200 local time, Tuesday through Saturday, other times
by NOTAM; Racer B MOA will not be activated between
2200-0700 local time.

Controlling agency: FAA, Indianapolis ARTCC

Using agency: HQ IN ANG Det 1, Camp Atterbury,
Edinburgh, IN

Racer C MOA, IN

Boundaries: Beginning at 39° 12' 30"N lat., 86° 09'
50"W long.,

to 39° 12' 30"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 39° 07' 36"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 39° 07' 36"N lat., 86° 08' 00"W long.,
to the point of beginning.

Designated altitudes: 500' AGL up to but not including
FL 180.

Time of designation: May 1 through September 30,
0700-2200 local time daily; October 1 through April 30,
0800-2200 local time, Tuesday through Saturday, other times
by NOTAM; Racer C MOA will not be activated between
2200-0700 local time.

Controlling agency: FAA, Indianapolis ARTCC

Using agency: HQ IN ANG Det 1, Camp Atterbury,
Edinburgh, IN

Racer D MOA, IN

Boundaries: Beginning at 39° 22' 00"N lat., 86° 06'
40"W long.,

to 39° 22' 00"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 39° 21' 30"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 39° 21' 30"N lat., 86° 06' 00"W long.,
to 39° 13' 00"N lat., 86° 06' 00"W long.,
to 39° 13' 00"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 39° 12' 30"N lat., 85° 59' 30"W long.,
to 39° 12' 30"N lat., 86° 09' 50"W long.,
to 39° 19' 00"N lat., 86° 11' 20"W long.,
to the point of beginning.

Designated altitudes: 14,000' MSL up to but not
including FL 180.

Time of designation: May 1 through September 30,
0700-2200 local time daily; October 1 through April 30,
0800-2200 local time, Tuesday through Saturday, other times
by NOTAM; Racer D MOA will not be activated between
2200-0700 local time.

Controlling agency: FAA, Indianapolis ARTCC

Using agency: HQ IN ANG Det 1, Camp Atterbury,
Edinburgh, IN

JPG A MOA, IN

Boundaries: Beginning at 38° 39' 00"N lat., 85° 56'
00"W long.,

to 38° 39' 00"N lat., 86° 05' 13"W long.,
to 38° 46' 00"N lat., 86° 13' 00"W long.,
to 38° 50' 34"N lat., 86° 00' 53"W long.,
to 38° 53' 57"N lat., 85° 51' 51"W long.;
to 39° 01' 00"N lat., 85° 33' 00"W long.,
to 39° 02' 05"N lat., 85° 30' 00"W long.,
to 39° 02' 57"N lat., 85° 27' 42"W long.,
to 38° 55' 00"N lat., 85° 27' 42"W long.,
to 38° 50' 00"N lat., 85° 27' 42"W long.,
to 38° 48' 00"N lat., 85° 33' 00"W long.,
to 38° 42' 38"N lat., 85° 46' 51"W long.;
to 38° 40' 17"N lat., 85° 52' 43"W long.,
to the point of beginning.

Designated altitudes: 500' AGL up to but not including
6,000' MSL; excluding the airspace from the surface to but
not including 4,000 feet MSL beginning at

38° 39' 00"N lat., 85° 56' 00"W long.;
to 38° 39' 00"N lat., 86° 05' 13"W long.;
to 38° 46' 00"N lat., 86° 13' 00"W long.;
to 38° 50' 34"N lat., 86° 00' 53"W long.;
to 38° 53' 57"N lat., 85° 51' 51"W long.;
thence south, southeast along the Louisville and
Indiana railroad tracks;
to 38° 42' 38"N lat., 85° 46' 51"W long.;
to 38° 40' 17"N lat., 85° 52' 43"W long.;
to point of beginning.

Time of designation: 0800-2300 local time daily; other
times by NOTAM; JPG A MOA activated in conjunction with the
Jefferson Gunnery Range.

Controlling agency: FAA, Indianapolis ARTCC

Using agency: HQ IN ANG Det 2, Madison, IN

JPG B MOA, IN

Boundaries: Beginning at 38° 40' 17"N lat., 85° 52'
43"W long.,

to 38° 50' 34"N lat., 86° 00' 53"W long.,
to 38° 53' 57"N lat., 85° 51' 51"W long.;
to 39° 01' 00"N lat., 85° 33' 00"W long.,
to 38° 48' 00"N lat., 85° 33' 00"W long.,
to 38° 42' 38"N lat., 85° 46' 51"W long.;
to the point of beginning.

Designated altitudes: 6,000' MSL up to but not
including FL 180.

Time of designation: 0800-2300 local time daily; other
times by NOTAM; JPG B MOA activated in conjunction with the
Jefferson Gunnery Range.

Controlling agency: FAA, Indianapolis ARTCC

Using agency: HQ IN ANG Det 2, Madison, IN

JPG C MOA, IN

Boundaries: Beginning at 38° 48' 00"N lat., 85° 33'
00"W long.,

to 39° 01' 00"N lat., 85° 33' 00"W long.,
to 39° 02' 05"N lat., 85° 30' 00"W long.,
to 38° 57' 30"N lat., 85° 30' 00"W long.,
to 38° 55' 00"N lat., 85° 27' 42"W long.,
to 38° 50' 00"N lat., 85° 27' 42"W long.,
to the point of beginning.

Designated altitudes: 6,000' MSL up to but not
including FL 180.

Time of designation: 0800-2300 local time daily; other
times by NOTAM; JPG C MOA activated in conjunction with the
Jefferson Gunnery Range.

Controlling agency: FAA, Indianapolis ARTCC

Using agency: HQ IN ANG Det 2, Madison, IN

JPG D MOA, IN

Boundaries: Beginning at 39° 01' 00"N lat., 85° 33'
00"W long.,

to 39° 10' 00"N lat., 85° 33' 00"W long.,
to 39° 12' 00"N lat., 85° 29' 00"W long.,
to 39° 10' 00"N lat., 85° 22' 00"W long.,
to 39° 02' 00"N lat., 85° 22' 00"W long.,
to 39° 02' 57"N lat., 85° 27' 42"W long.,
to 39° 02' 05"N lat., 85° 30' 00"W long.,
to the point of beginning.

Designated altitudes: 500' AGL up to but not including
4,000' MSL.

Time of designation: 0800-2300 local time daily; other
times by NOTAM; JPG D MOA activated in conjunction with the
Jefferson Gunnery Range.

Controlling agency: FAA, Indianapolis ARTCC

Using agency: HQ IN ANG Det 2, Madison, IN

For status of the Racer MOAs call (812) 526-1496. For
status of JPG MOAs call (812) 689-7295.








"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
| Mxsmanic wrote in
| :
|
| Judah writes:
|
| The sectional depicts the borders very clearly, and it
depicts the
| terrain surrounding those borders as well as any nearby
navigation
| aids.
|
| Yes, but it provides no directions or dimensions (with a
few
| exceptions). Am I expected to pull out a protractor and
a ruler in
| flight to check the chart and see if I really am clear
of airspaces I
| wish to avoid?
|
| No..... The answer is very clearly answered above.
|
| Read it real slow, and just maybe you may get out of it,
you use your
| eyes......
|
| The answer is clearly in Google. The news about the plane
in NY crashing
| into a condominium will sure give you real life examples
to your questions
| being asked.
|
| DO YOUR RESEARCH as you claim and the answers are there.
|
| Allen

Ron Garret writes:

Do you mean how do you find the boundary as depicted on the chart, or
how do you relate the depicted boundary to an actual physical location
out in the real world?

How do I relate it to the real world? In other words, how do I know,
as I fly along, whether I'm inside or outside a boundary? Very often
the boundaries cross largely empty areas of the chart, with no precise
indications of how to locate the boundary in the real world.

If the latter, when all else fails, some pilots fall back on an advanced
technique that is all but forgotten in this age of GPS. It's called
"looking out the window for landmarks."

But the charts don't have that many landmarks, and the boundaries
rarely seem to be based on landmarks; instead, they seem to have been
surveyed.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

But the charts don't have that many landmarks, and the boundaries
rarely seem to be based on landmarks; instead, they seem to have been
surveyed.

WRONG AGAIN.

Maybe if you took the time to RESEARCH how to read a sectional, you will
find all sorts of goodies, such as power lines, lakes, rivers, cities,
points of interests that actually correlate with USING YOUR EYES outside
the window. And guess what, there are even roads depicted on the charts.

And this is only a small taste of what a chart can offer. DO YOUR RESEARCH
and you wouldn't be saying such silly things as above.

Allen

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 02:35:43 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Garret writes:

Do you mean how do you find the boundary as depicted on the chart, or
how do you relate the depicted boundary to an actual physical location
out in the real world?

How do I relate it to the real world? In other words, how do I know,
as I fly along, whether I'm inside or outside a boundary? Very often
the boundaries cross largely empty areas of the chart, with no precise
indications of how to locate the boundary in the real world.


It's called pilotage and it's really not that hard in real life, if you
are at all good with maps in the first place (which I expect most pilots
are). You really owe it to yourself to fly for real some day.

(reminds me of a great line in LordOTRings:
"Maps conveyed nothing to Sam's mind")




randall g =%^) PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

How do I relate it to the real world? In other words, how do I know,
as I fly along, whether I'm inside or outside a boundary? Very often
the boundaries cross largely empty areas of the chart, with no precise
indications of how to locate the boundary in the real world.

In the real world, you start out at a known location, and monitor your
progress using navigation tools such as pilotage, dead reckoning, etc. You
don't simply 'pop' into a largely empty area of a chart.

But the charts don't have that many landmarks, and the boundaries
rarely seem to be based on landmarks; instead, they seem to have been
surveyed.

The charts have numerous landmarks - lakes, rivers, roads, power lines,
cities, racetracks, aqueducts, quarries, bridges, antennas, hills, mountains.
All are very discernable from the air in real life. MSFS does not effectively
simulate the real-world view of the ground from the cockpit of a small plane,
and that is why you are having so much trouble.

Judah wrote:
In the real world, you start out at a known location, and monitor your
progress using navigation tools such as pilotage, dead reckoning, etc. You
don't simply 'pop' into a largely empty area of a chart.

Ahhh, but you can in MSFS... snicker

Mxsmanic wrote:
Judah writes:

The sectional depicts the borders very clearly, and it depicts the terrain
surrounding those borders as well as any nearby navigation aids.

Yes, but it provides no directions or dimensions (with a few
exceptions). Am I expected to pull out a protractor and a ruler in
flight to check the chart and see if I really am clear of airspaces I
wish to avoid?

The sectional chart is used with a plotter. The plotter measures
distance and can figure direction.

-Robert, CFII

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in
oups.com:

The sectional chart is used with a plotter. The plotter measures
distance and can figure direction.

-Robert, CFII

Be honest Robert *very big smile*

Outside of training, when was the last time you used the plotter in flight?

It's been some time since I did a "true VFR flight" but when I did, I used
the tic marks inside the boxes (going on memory, 30 miles per box) to
figure mileage and eyeballed the heading based on my direction of flight.

In my VFR checkride, if memory serves me correct, the DE didn't look for me
to know the direction to the umpteenth degreee for my diversion airport
(what general heading would I turn to), but he did want to know within 5
miles how far I was from the airport I had to "divert" during the check
ride from a checkpoint I had crossed.

He also wanted me to tell him what I would look for at my diversion airport
based on the sectional which was easy for me, don't cross the Mississippi
river, follow Interstate 20 and look north (left) of the city of Vicksburg
to find my airport.

Allen
(who gave up the plotter for computerized flight planning)

In article .com,
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:
Judah writes:

The sectional depicts the borders very clearly, and it depicts the terrain
surrounding those borders as well as any nearby navigation aids.

Yes, but it provides no directions or dimensions (with a few
exceptions). Am I expected to pull out a protractor and a ruler in
flight to check the chart and see if I really am clear of airspaces I
wish to avoid?

The sectional chart is used with a plotter. The plotter measures
distance and can figure direction.

-Robert, CFII

I learned navigation on a boat, where the traditional tools are parallel
rules and a pair of dividers. I always found the standard aviation plotter
to be awkward to use compared to those. Use whatever works for you.

Neither a plotter nor parallel rules is convenient to use in the cockpit
(they're mostly pre-flight planning tools). AOPA puts out a nice little
gizmo called an AIR-AID. It's not much more than a piece of thin plastic
with sectional and terminal chart scales printed on it, but it fits in a
pocket, and it's handy to use in flight.

Also, learn to estimate. A VOR compass rose is 10 nm radius on a
sectional. For bearing, I put the edge of my hand down and then slide it
over to the nearest compass ross, keeping the angle constant. Should get
you within 10 degrees or so.