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First TSO-C199 "TABS" device



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 6th 17, 05:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Renny[_2_]
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Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:14:54 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Hi Sarah,

Think about stalk mounting off panel. A cheap universal automotive cell
phone cradle works great! Cut off the base and attach it to the top or
side of your panel with two Adel clamps. Here's a picture of how I
mounted a Dell Streak in my crowded LAK-17a:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d61t34oz6x...panel.jpg?dl=0

BTW, the ClearNav does not have a built-in FLARM receiver. I mounted a
PowerFLARM portable to the top of the glare shield of my Stemme and feed
the ClearNav via serial cable. I have a friend who mounts his PF
portable AND an LX9000 (I think) on stalks in his LAK-17bfes. Maybe
he'll share a picture.

Good luck!
Dan


On 1/6/2017 9:01 AM, Sarah wrote:
Just to clarify ... all the people chiming in about traffic display options (LX, CNV, Oudie...) have a powerflarm ADSB/Flarm receiver, right?

I have very limited room. Adding TN72 is possible, but adding a powerflarm also would be very difficult. Maybe I could if I take out my varios.


On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 6:52:27 PM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Depends on the computer. My 7" screen on the LX9070 displays traffic beautifully, really helps with situational awareness. Traffic is well displayed on many varios too i.e., Butterfly LXnav 80,8, 10,etc.


--
Dan, 5J


Indeed, Dan is correct..You can see my LX9000 on a RAM mount here...

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/lxnav...AM-Renny-1.jpg

A RAM mount also supports my PowerFlarm. You can see that photo at this link. Please note that the Oudie 2 was replaced by the LX9000 in this older photo...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8...5941fafc_o.jpg
  #32  
Old January 6th 17, 05:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 8:01:48 AM UTC-8, Sarah wrote:
Just to clarify ... all the people chiming in about traffic display options (LX, CNV, Oudie...) have a powerflarm ADSB/Flarm receiver, right?

I have very limited room. Adding TN72 is possible, but adding a powerflarm also would be very difficult. Maybe I could if I take out my varios.


On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 6:52:27 PM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Depends on the computer. My 7" screen on the LX9070 displays traffic beautifully, really helps with situational awareness. Traffic is well displayed on many varios too i.e., Butterfly LXnav 80,8, 10,etc.


If your tactical computer display has good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets, I see no reason for the dedicated Flarm display. It is simply duplicating what is already in front of you. No extra panel space is necessary, though some space behind the panel is.
  #33  
Old January 6th 17, 06:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:40:26 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:

If your tactical computer display has good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets, I see no reason for the dedicated Flarm display. It is simply duplicating what is already in front of you. No extra panel space is necessary, though some space behind the panel is.


Sure there is. The nav computer map display is best set to show (roughly) what you can glide to. The Flarm & adsb targets you care about -- the close ones -- won't be resolvable.

2nd display solves that problem.

Evan Ludeman / T8
  #34  
Old January 6th 17, 06:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard[_9_]
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Posts: 551
Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:05:09 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:40:26 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:

If your tactical computer display has good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets, I see no reason for the dedicated Flarm display. It is simply duplicating what is already in front of you. No extra panel space is necessary, though some space behind the panel is.


Sure there is. The nav computer map display is best set to show (roughly) what you can glide to. The Flarm & adsb targets you care about -- the close ones -- won't be resolvable.

2nd display solves that problem.

Evan Ludeman / T8




The Ultimate Le/Le57 running SeeYou PNA gives you text and voice warnings for the close in targets and you have seen the target coming for quite a while. I believe the large display is much better for traffic avoidance than many small flarm displays.

Air Avionics has a new display the Air Traffic Display that is one of the best small displays on the market.

http://www.craggyaero.com/atd.htm

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimates.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com
  #35  
Old January 6th 17, 08:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 10
Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

Am Mittwoch, 4. Januar 2017 18:12:19 UTC+1 schrieb jfitch:


... That makes uncommon sense for the rule makers. What happens on a Flarm display that sees both a Flarm and an ADS-B return from a glider? Is Flarm capable of disambiguating the result?


Only if the FLARM ID is set to ICAO-32-bit-address used for the ADS-B out.
  #36  
Old January 7th 17, 06:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:05:09 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:40:26 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:

If your tactical computer display has good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets, I see no reason for the dedicated Flarm display. It is simply duplicating what is already in front of you. No extra panel space is necessary, though some space behind the panel is.


Sure there is. The nav computer map display is best set to show (roughly) what you can glide to. The Flarm & adsb targets you care about -- the close ones -- won't be resolvable.

2nd display solves that problem.

Evan Ludeman / T8


Again, if the display has a "good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets", you don't need the Flarm display in my opinion. Close target are automatically made more noticeable, and very close targets are warned of with audio and graphics. This is *substantially* more obvious on my tactical display than on the Flarm display. A good tactical display will be context sensitive and take care of this for you. It really shouldn't be showing you all the places you can glide to, if you are about to hit a 737.
  #37  
Old January 7th 17, 07:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 12:06:10 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:05:09 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:40:26 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:

If your tactical computer display has good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets, I see no reason for the dedicated Flarm display. It is simply duplicating what is already in front of you. No extra panel space is necessary, though some space behind the panel is.


Sure there is. The nav computer map display is best set to show (roughly) what you can glide to. The Flarm & adsb targets you care about -- the close ones -- won't be resolvable.

2nd display solves that problem.

Evan Ludeman / T8


Again, if the display has a "good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets", you don't need the Flarm display in my opinion. Close target are automatically made more noticeable, and very close targets are warned of with audio and graphics. This is *substantially* more obvious on my tactical display than on the Flarm display. A good tactical display will be context sensitive and take care of this for you. It really shouldn't be showing you all the places you can glide to, if you are about to hit a 737.


All modern glide computers with a flarm interface do a decent job of collision warning. I haven't compared them all, but some are quite excellent. That problem has been well addressed in the marketplace.

The problem that still exists is the simultaneous depiction of non-threatening flarm traffic (your buddy at 1/2 mile, seven o'clock) and 30 miles of terrain, your course, alternate landing sites. Modern flight computers give you one, or the other (depending on zoom level). If you don't see that as a problem, never mind! Changing the zoom level is just another cockpit distraction I seek to avoid. All those little seconds in the cockpit add up. I want my eyes and attention out the window.

All of the powerflarm/butterfly display are pretty dreadful imo. Any of the LXNav flarmview series would be preferred for a dedicated flarm display.

best,
Evan
  #38  
Old January 7th 17, 08:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard[_9_]
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Posts: 551
Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 10:30:01 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 12:06:10 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:05:09 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:40:26 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:

If your tactical computer display has good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets, I see no reason for the dedicated Flarm display. It is simply duplicating what is already in front of you. No extra panel space is necessary, though some space behind the panel is.

Sure there is. The nav computer map display is best set to show (roughly) what you can glide to. The Flarm & adsb targets you care about -- the close ones -- won't be resolvable.

2nd display solves that problem.

Evan Ludeman / T8


Again, if the display has a "good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets", you don't need the Flarm display in my opinion. Close target are automatically made more noticeable, and very close targets are warned of with audio and graphics. This is *substantially* more obvious on my tactical display than on the Flarm display. A good tactical display will be context sensitive and take care of this for you. It really shouldn't be showing you all the places you can glide to, if you are about to hit a 737.


All modern glide computers with a flarm interface do a decent job of collision warning. I haven't compared them all, but some are quite excellent. That problem has been well addressed in the marketplace.

The problem that still exists is the simultaneous depiction of non-threatening flarm traffic (your buddy at 1/2 mile, seven o'clock) and 30 miles of terrain, your course, alternate landing sites. Modern flight computers give you one, or the other (depending on zoom level). If you don't see that as a problem, never mind! Changing the zoom level is just another cockpit distraction I seek to avoid. All those little seconds in the cockpit add up.. I want my eyes and attention out the window.

All of the powerflarm/butterfly display are pretty dreadful imo. Any of the LXNav flarmview series would be preferred for a dedicated flarm display..

best,
Evan


I guess you have not seen the new Air Avionics "Butterfly Display" Air Traffic Display. It is the best I have seen.

http://www.craggyaero.com/atd.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com
  #39  
Old January 7th 17, 09:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS
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Posts: 1,384
Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 10:30:01 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 12:06:10 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:05:09 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:40:26 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:

If your tactical computer display has good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets, I see no reason for the dedicated Flarm display. It is simply duplicating what is already in front of you. No extra panel space is necessary, though some space behind the panel is.

Sure there is. The nav computer map display is best set to show (roughly) what you can glide to. The Flarm & adsb targets you care about -- the close ones -- won't be resolvable.

2nd display solves that problem.

Evan Ludeman / T8


Again, if the display has a "good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets", you don't need the Flarm display in my opinion. Close target are automatically made more noticeable, and very close targets are warned of with audio and graphics. This is *substantially* more obvious on my tactical display than on the Flarm display. A good tactical display will be context sensitive and take care of this for you. It really shouldn't be showing you all the places you can glide to, if you are about to hit a 737.


All modern glide computers with a flarm interface do a decent job of collision warning. I haven't compared them all, but some are quite excellent. That problem has been well addressed in the marketplace.

The problem that still exists is the simultaneous depiction of non-threatening flarm traffic (your buddy at 1/2 mile, seven o'clock) and 30 miles of terrain, your course, alternate landing sites. Modern flight computers give you one, or the other (depending on zoom level). If you don't see that as a problem, never mind! Changing the zoom level is just another cockpit distraction I seek to avoid. All those little seconds in the cockpit add up.. I want my eyes and attention out the window.

All of the powerflarm/butterfly display are pretty dreadful imo. Any of the LXNav flarmview series would be preferred for a dedicated flarm display..

best,
Evan


Perhaps the easiest way to warn is with good audio.
Do any of the currently available TABS / ADSB-In devices offer audible warnings?
And do they fit in - not hanging off like an afterthought - a typical glider instrument panel?
Possibly the new Air-Avionics unit?
Jim
  #40  
Old January 7th 17, 09:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default First TSO-C199 "TABS" device

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 10:30:01 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 12:06:10 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:05:09 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:40:26 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:

If your tactical computer display has good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets, I see no reason for the dedicated Flarm display. It is simply duplicating what is already in front of you. No extra panel space is necessary, though some space behind the panel is.

Sure there is. The nav computer map display is best set to show (roughly) what you can glide to. The Flarm & adsb targets you care about -- the close ones -- won't be resolvable.

2nd display solves that problem.

Evan Ludeman / T8


Again, if the display has a "good depiction of Flarm and ADSB targets", you don't need the Flarm display in my opinion. Close target are automatically made more noticeable, and very close targets are warned of with audio and graphics. This is *substantially* more obvious on my tactical display than on the Flarm display. A good tactical display will be context sensitive and take care of this for you. It really shouldn't be showing you all the places you can glide to, if you are about to hit a 737.


All modern glide computers with a flarm interface do a decent job of collision warning. I haven't compared them all, but some are quite excellent. That problem has been well addressed in the marketplace.

The problem that still exists is the simultaneous depiction of non-threatening flarm traffic (your buddy at 1/2 mile, seven o'clock) and 30 miles of terrain, your course, alternate landing sites. Modern flight computers give you one, or the other (depending on zoom level). If you don't see that as a problem, never mind! Changing the zoom level is just another cockpit distraction I seek to avoid. All those little seconds in the cockpit add up.. I want my eyes and attention out the window.

All of the powerflarm/butterfly display are pretty dreadful imo. Any of the LXNav flarmview series would be preferred for a dedicated flarm display..

best,
Evan


"the simultaneous depiction" - Ok, gotcha. I am insensitive to this because on my tactical display, zooming is instantaneous and effortless (pinch-to-zoom, drag-to-pan). Using XCSoar or other I did find that a little annoying and distracting - lots of button pushing.
 




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